Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
In a world where storytelling has been our link to the past since the days of cave drawings, there exists a timeless tradition. It's the art of passing down knowledge, and for Military Veterans, it's a crucial piece of their legacy. Join us on the Veterans Archives Podcast, where we dive deep into the heartwarming and awe-inspiring stories of those who served, no matter when or where.
Here, Veterans get the chance to be the authors of their own narratives. Through guided interviews in a relaxed and safe environment, they paint their experiences with their own words and unique voices. The result? A memory card in a presentation box, a precious gift they can share however they please.
But that's not all. These stories find a secure home in our archive, a treasure chest of experiences for future generations to explore. The best part? It's all a gift to the Veteran – our way of saying thank you for their service.
Tune in to the Veterans Archives Podcast, where history, heroism, and heartwarming tales come to life.
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Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
From Highland Falls to Iraq: The Transformative Journey of Sergeant Major Roy Lewis
Ever wondered how the values of respect, hard work, and punctuality can shape a person's entire life? Join us for an intimate conversation with Sergeant Major Retired Roy Lewis, as he takes us from his disciplined upbringing in Highland Falls, New York, to a fulfilling and transformative military career. Discover how sports and drama during his high school years became the foundation for Roy's personal growth and identity.
Roy opens up about the significant relationships that defined his journey, including his serendipitous meeting with his future wife during a college musical and the heartfelt acceptance from his in-laws despite their different backgrounds. From the challenges of pursuing an entertainment career to the life-changing decision to enlist in the Army, Roy's stories are rich with lessons in perseverance, faith, and community. Listen as he recounts his time as a drill sergeant, the camaraderie of military life, and the unique cultural experiences encountered during his deployments, particularly in Iraq.
Transitioning from military service to civilian life is no small feat, and Roy's candid reflections on this journey offer invaluable insights for anyone facing similar challenges. Hear about his career shift to civil service, the importance of intentional leadership, and the parallels between military service and parenting. Roy's experiences highlight the power of second chances, the impact of faith, and the strength found in community. Tune in for a compelling narrative that underscores the essence of true leadership and personal growth.
So today is July 19th, 2024. I'm here with Sergeant Major Retired Roy Lewis, who served in Active Duty Army, army National Guard and then Army Reserves. So quite a history there. So we'll get started. We'll keep it kind of simple. If you could just kind of tell us when and where you were born.
Speaker 2:Thanks, bill. Well, I was born. Nobody's never really heard of it, but it's kind of interesting. I was born in a little town called Highland Falls, new York. Now, nobody's never heard of it. But, however, if you've ever heard of the West Point Military Academy, the famous academy in New York, if you go through the front gate you have no choice but to go through my town and Highland Falls is. Everybody that lives in that little town pretty much works at West Point.
Speaker 2:And how I ended up being born there is because back in the 60s a lot of the African American families from the South would migrate to the North for work. So in my town most of the Black families that lived in Highland Falls were either from Georgia, north Carolina, south Carolina. Families from the South would migrate to the North for work. So in my town most of the Black families that lived in Holland Falls were either from Georgia, north Carolina, south Carolina In my case my dad's people were from Alabama. So in the 60s I had an aunt I think it was his sister that made a phone call back home and said hey, there's jobs up here. So there was a mass migration up to Holland Falls, new York, and of up here. So there was a mass migration up to Highland Falls, new York, and of course, we were the generation that was born up there.
Speaker 1:Okay, and let's talk about your family a little bit. You talked about your dad. What was it like growing up, roy Lewis? What are some of your first memories?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm the oldest of six children and it's funny that it's funny thing about that. In my in Highland Falls, because it was such a close knit community, I'm willing to bet I was probably related to about 65% of the people in that town and and I hated it, as my last name is Lewis and I had my aunt that lived up on the hill, my cousins, my uncles lived around me and a lot of times when I would go apply for a job or go to the post office or run an errand and they say who are you, I said, oh, my name is Roy Lewis. And they're like oh, I know your uncle or somebody knows my uncle or my aunt or or whatever, your uncle or somebody knows my uncle or my aunt or whatever. So I guess I didn't have an identity crisis. It's just that I you know. Later on in life I realized that you know, you heard the old saying it takes a village to raise a child and that's pretty much true. I was safe. I hated it, but I was safe. There was always a sense of security there, knowing and love and all that.
Speaker 2:And, believe it or not, discipline. My father was a very Southern country boy believed in discipline. You say yes, ma'am, you say no, ma'am. Yes, sir, hard work. He was a blue collar worker. Both my parents worked at West Point, so my mother worked in accounting, my dad worked in roads and grounds at West Point, and they were very strict about education, very strict about even going to church my dad was. So to tell you how kind of structured he was. One thing I remembered about him he would never let my brothers and I wear a clip-on tie for some reason. I don't know why that is, but I remember he made me stay in my room until I learned how to tie a Windsor knot. And here's the funny thing about it, bill, is that when I graduated basic training, when we got our dress uniform, half the guys in my platoon didn't know how to tie a tie. So I made about a hundred bucks that day.
Speaker 1:This was a good lesson your dad taught you. You just didn't know it at the time.
Speaker 2:It's funny how things come around uh, 360 and I and it brought back to my memory. I sit back there and a lot of guys are asking me how do you know how to do that? I'm like, hey, I grew up, my dad made it, made me do that. And and also about being on time, I remember when I got my first job, I worked at the West Point Officers Club and my first week of work my dad said, hey, if you've got to be there at nine o'clock, you're there at 830. You know always being, always being conscious of time.
Speaker 2:But growing up, roy Lewis, it was, it's interesting because my town was more most of the people, it was more of a sports town. You know everybody, if you were good at basketball or football or baseball, you were and you were like a rock star, you know. And, yes, I did play varsity basketball, I did play varsity football, but there was a part of me I felt it's just wasn't my cup of tea, you know. I felt that I was following and it was just something that you did, everybody did, and I couldn't really find my identity in that. So I did those things that eventually I ended up my senior year I went to the drama club for some reason, and I found that I was like, wow, man, just the expression of it was liberating for me because, you know, I just didn't fit in that mold. I just felt I wasn't being true to myself or who I was.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm you know, I'm curious about that.
Speaker 2:How did your how did your parents feel about drama club versus sports? Well, it's interesting, though. I have a younger brother and people look at my profile. I have a younger brother that got a full, a full ride to SMU for a scholarship for basketball. So he was the. When he got his full ride to basketball, you know, at SMU he was on television. He played against people you know that are on TV right now, some of these NBA stars. He got drafted by the NBA and all that. So he was like a big sports hero in our town. So that took a lot of pressure off of me and my mom was more or less like as long as you're happy, you're not in trouble, you're not out there getting in the gangs and stuff, she was fine with that, as long as you're engaged with something. So she was okay with that, oh well that's good.
Speaker 1:That's good. So let's back up just a little bit. There's a couple of things that pop into my head. Growing up in a small town, especially a small town where nearly everyone is somehow related right, I'm guessing you didn't get away with a whole lot either.
Speaker 2:No, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't. And it was so funny. I was at a family gathering last weekend and I told a funny story because, like I said, I'm old, as of old as six three boys, three girls and I remember my dad put all six of us in the yard. We had to clean the yard up and we had to pull weed to something, and I remember my two youngest sisters were very mad at him and they were upset and they're like I'm going to run away, I'm going to run away, and I and I remember saying something like to the effect of like, where are you going to run to? You know, by the time you get to the main street there'll be phone calls, people. You know you're not going to make it to the highway, you know they're going to know that you, you know that you ran away and um, and it was just kind of weird, you know.
Speaker 2:But you know, the thing is that a sense of which is kind of sad. I'm seeing, if I had to contrast it to today, how people or families are cohabitating today. You know, children are growing up and they're moving further away from the family, the nucleus of the family, and stuff, and it's kind of sad because I even myself, I have my son is on active duty, he's in Vincenza, italy. I have a daughter and she's in Oklahoma City. So we're like in a big triangle, we're in North Carolina and I kind of miss that. I really kind of miss the closeness of family, because when I grew up we had cookouts. I remember in our neighborhood we have a thing I don't know if they do that much anymore, but we had a thing I don't know if they do that much anymore but we had block parties. They would block off the street and you have barbecue and hamburgers and hot dogs and play music, and you don't really see that today.
Speaker 2:And I think that's I've come to one conclusion, bill, that I love technology. I've been, you know, I've been in computers all my life. However, I don't think you can automate relationships. I don't think you can do that. I don't think you can do that. I think it's totally impossible. I think it's meant to be what it is. And in my family I grew, you know I was very proud of my family. You know, a little bit too close for me, but I was very, very proud of my family. I knew that if I needed a ride or if I needed to borrow money, or something would break down or whatever. I could pretty much call to a family member and I would get help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a sense of community that we lose as we get apart. So you and I aren't sitting in the same room together, but at the very least we're sitting face-to-face. I think there's value in that as well. I want to talk a little bit more, too, about your mother and your father, so if you could just kind of share, you know, what's one of your best or favorite memories of your father.
Speaker 2:My father. I wrote a book and I'll mention it at the end of this series. I wrote a book called Broken Things and I mentioned my dad in it and I talked about his upbringing. He grew up one of five children in Montgomery, and not really in Alabama, but a little traffic like one traffic like town call Fort deposit, alabama, which is about 30 minutes outside Montgomery, and my dad he grew up in right, smack dab in the middle of the civil rights movement. So he grew up uh, he didn't finish finish school Uh, he, he, uh, started working at an early age, as a youngster, and I remember we lost him about six years ago.
Speaker 2:But one time on a visit he took me, I got in his truck and he took me around Montgomery and drove me around and gave me an actual history lesson of what it was like growing up in Alabama and I almost had tears in my eyes because I'm sitting here and I'm like you know. He would say that him and his, his friends, would make money working at the golf course and they would collect all the balls for the golfers and they would resell them. And I said, oh, that's, that's pretty cool. And he said, you know, after they would get off from work, they would take the back roads going home because for fear of just being, you know, back in that time you didn't want to get in trouble or lynched or whatever the case may be. And he and I remember another memory I had of him that when we were living in New York my dad worked very, very hard I'm the oldest so I've had a front seat pretty much through his life but I remember he would always eat his dinner and he would never finish it. He would take the plate and put it in the oven and I would ask my mother, why does he do that? And my mom said that when he was a young boy, that he would, you know, food was hard to come by so he would eat it and just save his food for later on and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Because he was a young boy, that he would you know food was hard to come by, so he would eat it and just save his food for later on, and stuff like because he grew up poor. And I was like, wow, you know. And um, I remember also too that my dad would send me to the store. This is back in the day when kids could buy cigarettes. I I remember, yeah, my dad used to smoke. Both my parents used to smoke and my dad used to smoke a pack of marlboros. I remember that because I would choke in the car when he would scold me about something smoking a cigarette. But he would get asked me to get a pack of cigarettes and a comic book for some reason, and he loved not superhero comic books but, uh, anything with westerns. He loves westerns. Uh-huh, asked my mom.
Speaker 2:I said why does he read comic books and my mom said that you know, he just is reading levels not really that great, but that's how he keeps up with his reading. And I remember just, you know, just really being amazed by his fortitude, by that, to be engaged. And I noticed about him that he was, he never lacked for a friend Me and my brothers and sisters, if they were on this call, they would say the same thing he would walk into he can walk into a Walmart and everybody would know him, he would engage himself with everybody. We're like dad, we got to go. You know he's sitting here and we're like dad, who's that person? You know that person? Oh no, I just met him two minutes ago and it says a lot about him, cause I see a lot of him in me and my brothers and sisters, even in my, my, my children. But it's funny, bill, about that question you asked about that.
Speaker 2:I was asked at a at a meeting one time. What is one of my fondest memories about my father and my family? And one of them is that when all eight of us my mom, my dad and all six kids were around the dining room table having dinner, that is my very intimate moments with my father, my mother, my brothers and sisters, because that's the place we would joke and you get the news of the day. And my dad, my mother, my brothers and sisters, because that's the place we would joke and you get the news of the day. And my dad you think I'm a card. My dad is. He would have us dying laughing. He would be talking about somebody in the church or somebody at work or whatever, and we would crack up laughing. And that was the place where it was laughing, you know, and that was the place where it was. Time just stood still for us and we, we loved each other and we just had just the fondest memories of each other.
Speaker 1:That just sounds like an incredible childhood. So let me ask you the same question about your mom.
Speaker 2:Okay, my mom is. It's so funny about that because I even had to ask her my mom. Now my mom is like you remember that old TV show, green Acres. Oh yeah, the guy that was from you know, he was a millionaire or something and wanted to go on farm and his wife was an upper level social crowd and she wanted to stay in the city. I think that describes my parents, because my dad is from one traffic like town in Alabama. However, my mother is from Philadelphia, the city of Philadelphia, and when I met my, my mom's mom and her people the total opposite. They they're like, they love the city, they're very church going folks and my mom was real big on education and I remember she would.
Speaker 2:We would say things like ain't real bad English, like ain't, and she just correct us like on the spot. You know about that, you will use, you know it's, you will use correct grammar and this and that and you will see your clothes. I had to be tidy. You know we didn't have the most fancy clothes, but they were clean and they were. We were presentable at all times. And I asked my mom I said how did you guys hook up? I don't get that. I mean total opposites. And my mother tells a story that my dad had an aunt or something in Philadelphia that he was visiting and they ran into each other when he would come there on visits and stuff like that and I was like, wow, he must have been really special, you know, for a city girl to really fall for a country guy. And you know, I said I can see the two contrasts but I think it was a good mix because my dad brought the work ethic and the basics of life to us, whereas my mom pushed excellence, you know, education and all that. It's good to be hardworking and stuff like that, but to also excel, you know, in education like that. So I saw her. She ended up being a minister.
Speaker 2:We were raised Methodist, so she ended up being a minister in the church and our family was one of the families that were always at. We were like the lay people, we helped out and everything. I hated it. You know we were one of the families that you know, put the chairs away, set up everything. But I will say this in their defense bill when we would have events at the church and I come in after a baseball game, I was like Mom, you know what are we having for dinner?
Speaker 2:Oh, we're eating at the church, and me and my brothers and sisters would just roll our eyes. However, boy, you get eight to ten church ladies in that kitchen. Those church ladies know their business. They know they fight like cats and dogs, but when that food comes out, boy, I, I would kill for that spread. You know so. But they were, um, they were definitely a contrast to each other, but I knew they loved each other, so much so that in my town, in highland falls, we were one of the probably a handful of African-American families that had both our parents still married together. So that was special.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that makes a huge difference. And so let's talk about your family a little bit. You're the oldest of six children. I know we don't want to spend two weeks going through all six kids, but if you could just kind of give us a little bit of a breakdown of your brothers and sisters and how that was with six kids in the house.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, man. It was funny, though, like I said, I'm the oldest and then the three behind me, the first four of us are a year apart and I had goes off to my mom being pregnant every single year, but the, the three behind me are girls. And then it goes my two brothers, uh, the one behind me is my sister, brenda. Her and I were like the, the supervisors of the team, so to speak. You know, uh, we would her and I would just get in trouble for the other four. You know, we just hated it because they, you know, somebody broke a lamp in the living room or somebody, you know, went in and ate all the snacks or something like that, and my mother's. I remember just getting yelled at, just, I didn't do anything.
Speaker 2:I, you know, and my, my best friend, who I'll talk about later, we were best friends, we've been best friends since kindergarten. He says to this day. He says, man, you were a sergeant before you ever became one. Because he said, I come over to your house and you got the other five mopping and sweeping and taking care of the house. And I explained to him. I said, because my parents would come home and I have a hot date and the house had to be clean. So this is before daycare. My mother. We had to take care of each other, so me and my sister were the. She was an incredible person, just very goal oriented. She was in a lot of sports. And then you have my middle sister, if I can kind of make note of. She passed away this July 4th weekend.
Speaker 1:So I'm sorry for your loss thank you.
Speaker 2:Uh, she was our middle sister and she was pretty much uh, I call her the hub of the family, because it's funny, though everybody has grown up and gone to the four winds and but she is the hub for communication in the family. She's I call her the equalizer, so everybody kind of filters emotions and everything through her and she was just an incredible person. Everybody liked her. Then comes my youngest sister, which I think all my siblings would agree. I love her, but her and my mom, she's just a baby girl, so she's spoiled, just super spoiled. Her and my mom were just identically alike, so she got a little bit more on the spoiled side and stuff like that, and one of the first ones to get married. And then you have my younger brother I just mentioned earlier, before the rock star. He was the basketball hero. I remember when he like again when he was, you know, playing on TV and they would see him play on, play on tv and stuff, and when he would come home my friends would come to my house and everybody's lined up to go talk to him because they saw him play basketball. But he's funny, he's got a sense of humor. Uh, he still resides down. Uh, he's in coaching right now, so he's down in houston with his family and history children. And then he got my youngest brother. He was the baby boy and on the spoiled side, but he just he tried college and everything. But he, when he graduated school, he kind of stayed close to home, got a job at West Point and just kind of just worked and everything. But he had such a work. It's funny, though, bill, he has such a work ethic that he was making adult wages at probably 18 or 17 or whatever, because he would come in the house and he have like all these sneakers and he had a car that had like the latest stereo system in it and we're all just working at McDonald's and something barely getting by and it's like where are you making this money? Working at McDonald's and something barely getting by, and it's like where are you making this money? But he and my dad were real close. So you know he stuck close to my dad and my dad hooked him up with a lot of, let's say, money-making opportunities. I put it that way.
Speaker 2:But as brothers and sisters we were, there was a time where we were all very close to my parents. This is the 70s and the 80s we didn't. My parents didn't put us in daycare so we were like pretty much latchkey kids. You know we had to stay in the house and we watched each other and you know we cleaned the house and that was expected of us, you know. So we formed our relationships.
Speaker 2:Like my parents, like we get home from school, we're not allowed my parents said we weren't allowed to go out and after after school and go play with the kids. We we had to wait to our parents to come home to be able to go outside. You know that's how strict my parents were. You know they didn't want us. You know, getting after school hanging out in the, on the streets or or in the in the you know whatever, on the block and stuff like that. When you come home you're, you do your homework, you clean your room, you clean the house and then when we get home from work you may go outside. So they were like that.
Speaker 2:But but it was kind of sad. It's sad for me because everybody started it. I was the first. I went to college in. Uh, like I said, I did two years of college. I was the first one to leave, then my sister, one by one, everybody started branching out into what they wanted to do. And I know for me I remember having this conversation with my brothers and sisters that you know I sat them all down and said, okay, you guys are all becoming adults now and for growing up, I used to tell you what to do. I said, hey, I release you guys. I'm not going to tell you what to do anymore. I'm here for an advisor, to be an advisor, but I'm not going to you. I'm not going to tell you you're getting husbands now and wives now and I just you have my blessing, but I'm not going to tell you what to do anymore.
Speaker 1:And it was fun watching them grow up. Yeah, you know, it's um. So when you grow up in a tight-knit family like that, a tight-knit community like that, um, it seems like, ultimately, um, people do grow up and move out and kind of spread out and um, so, as your family started doing that, um, you, you know how, how did you stay in or did you stay connected?
Speaker 2:I think we stay connected to a certain extent, but there's a there's a there's a there's pros and cons to being in a close knit family and I think one of the mistakes that close-knit families make is they don't understand boundaries. And I know my two sisters, my middle sister and my baby sister, were the first two to get married and I remember, especially my younger sister, whenever she had problems with her husband she would run home as if she was just like coming home to college or something or if she had an option to go back home. And my sister other sister, her, you know, internal problems with her husband was voiced all through our family. So and you've heard the term blood is thicker than water, so people choose sides in in those moments.
Speaker 2:For me, when I got married, I I saw that and I was very, very protective of my marriage and stuff like that and I've kind of paid the cost with that because it in those type of families, if you don't, if you set boundaries in every, you kind of like looked upon as like what's wrong with you. You know this is normal for us for everybody to be involved, everybody to be involved in each other's business. And I learned really pretty much from my wife. You know that that's not the case. But, um, growing up, you know, it's just, um, it was hard, you know just. You know seeing everybody grow up and their challenges, but I, for me, I had to. I knew I had to let them grow. I had to, you know. Now, granted, there were times in my history where I helped siblings out if they needed money or they needed stuff like that, but I kept a distance not to get involved into that kind of thing, because they had to grow, they had to and develop as individuals and they can't do that, you know.
Speaker 2:I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. Like I had a conversation with my sister. I said, hey, when I come to your house, you're my sister, but I can't like walk in your house and go in your refrigerator and start making a sandwich, right right, because I'm going to disrespect your husband, I'm going to disrespect your family by doing that. So the way I show respect is I come in and I call first and ask if I can be invited and do the necessary steps to reestablish our relationship. I said our relationship changes now. Yes, I'm still your brother, I still love you, but now you are a wife or you're a husband, you're a mom, you're a dad, and they need you now. They're at the top of the chain for your attention right now, and that's appropriate. Yes.
Speaker 1:Yep, absolutely. So I want to jump forward a little bit now. We kind of talked a little bit about high school and then you said you went to college for a couple of years. What was high school like? And then what were you looking to accomplish at college?
Speaker 2:Well, high school, when I look back on it high school for me I was kind of an average student and I, you know education wasn't really important. I just sometimes and this might be even true today, a lot of schools are just pushing kids through and just getting through it. And, like I said, I did do. I did make varsity basketball, I did make varsity football, but it was just kind of like I just felt like I'm just going through the changes, just going through the motions. That's what I was looking for going through the motions, just going through the motions, and you have the peer pressure. If you wanted to be, the thing I hated was peer pressure, it was just if you wanted to be acknowledged in any kind of way, you did everything the kids did. You did everything. You wore the cool clothes, you wore the sneakers, you know, you wore your haircut a certain way just to get acknowledged.
Speaker 2:And, my town, again, being so small, I wanted to have a girlfriend. I tried several times, but it's so funny though, in that small town and people that are listening to this broadcast would agree with me that a lot of the kids you grow up with you. We all went to elementary school together, then we went to middle school together and then we went to high school and I remember one young lady I had a big crush on. We grew up together but she would never give me a chance to date her, you know, and but, uh, and I now understand why, because I'm, if anything, I'm probably like her brother, if anything, she probably saw me as that, but it just stifled, it just was no growth, uh for uh, individualism in in my town. I just think you just had to follow. As long as you followed that track, you were okay. But it wasn't until like college, and I can tell you how I ended up going to school in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2:Part of my story is that in the summers my parents we had relatives in Boston and we would go, my mom and dad and all six of us we'd go visit my aunt and uncle in Boston for the summer. And I remember there was one summer I was 16, we were headed back to New York and I was just joking around and I told my mom. I said, can I stay the summer? And my mother asked my auntie, can he stay? And she said, oh yeah, sure, because they didn't have any kids, they were married, she had a husband didn't have any kids. So my auntie said yeah. She said, sure, bill, I was supposed to stay two weeks. I stayed the whole entire summer in Boston and I did that for three years in a row and I fell in love with Boston. That's my second home and I lived in the Dorchester section of Boston, near Roxbury, and I loved it. However, my only pet peeve about Boston is when I was again at that age, I used to walk around my Yankee cap in Boston.
Speaker 1:That's probably not a good thing to do.
Speaker 2:No, it's not. But I think back those kids would pick on me. I was skinny, I looked like JJ on me. I was, I was skinny. I would look. I look like jj on good times. I was skinny back then. But I wear my, because the yankees was my team, I wear my ball cap. I didn't think anything, I didn't know anything about the rival or anything. So these kids would push me around or whatever. And I still hate the red socks. I don't like the red socks, I don't like the patriots, I don't like the celtics, I don't like the Patriots, I don't like the Celtics or anything.
Speaker 2:But I grew up there three years of my last year, the three years of my high school years, and I met a, had my first little puppy love and I would go back every year. And when it came time for me to pick a college, my mom said where do you want to go to school? I said I want to go to school in Boston. I want to go to school. I was all Boston. However, my grades weren't good enough for Boston College or University of Massachusetts. Massachusetts has all those schools up there, but my grades were like in the toilet. But my guidance counselor in high school found a junior college just outside Boston called Dean Junior College. It's called Dean College now because they switched from two-year curriculum to a four-year curriculum now and he says there's a school called Dean, you want to go? I said sure, if it gets me to Boston I'll take it. And I got accepted. And my major was believe it or not, I tell people my major was music, theater and dance.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a lot of people crack up laughing at that. They say, well, you know, how did your dad, how did your dad accept you being a dancer? I said, hey, as long as he got me my tights and my outfits and all my workout gear, I don't care Again, like my parents, just like, as long as you're going to college, you're engaged, I don't care. So I went up there and the sad thing about it, I don't think think I ever told my parents this. But the night I was supposed to leave for college bags are all packed, ready to go. My girlfriend calls me and she breaks up with me.
Speaker 2:Oh and boy, my heart just sank. My heart just sank and my mom's got. You know, my bags are already packed, tuition's paid, all ready to go, and I'm sitting in the back of the car we're driving up to Boston, to Dean College, and I didn't have the heart to tell my parents I didn't want to go. You know I lost. You know I lost the love of my life, my little puppy love. I didn't want to go, but I kept it to myself. I sucked it up and I went to the campus and, long story short, that's where I met my wife that's where things happen for a reason right yeah, I met her.
Speaker 2:Well, I made the the school, uh, musical play that year and my wife was in the same show and we were in a few. Her major was music therapy, so we had a few classes together and the way she tells it, I can hear her right now standing behind me. We had one class together called music theory together and I, she says, when I walked in, she just said oh you, you had your baseball cap on. You're like arrogant, you know. You just really stuck. You were all that and you didn't know me, bill.
Speaker 2:But I had a little bit of a thick New York accent. I sound like Tony Soprano, okay, and my coffee, my non-dairy cream in it, you know what I mean. So college kind of smoothed that accent out a little bit. But she was just saying, oh gosh, I saw you and you didn't. You didn't have any paper or anything like you weren't prepared. And I'm like, okay, whatever. But but it's funny though, our relationship began out of just friendship. We just went to school and then, all of a sudden, we were in the same classes, we did homework together, with the lunch together, breakfast together, and then the rest is history. We just found out like, oh, we like each other, you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I always tell a lot of these young couples you get married. The best thing you can do with your spouse is be friends. Be friends Because when the kids are all grown and you're getting old and everything, it always goes full circle. And now we sit there, we go to a restaurant. Our favorite thing is to sit at a window at a coffee house and put a pot of coffee and just talk. We did that in college and now we're doing that now because our children are all grown.
Speaker 1:Well, that's you know. I think that's important when you talk about marriage. Is that you're right, like when all the kids are gone and out of the house. If you haven't maintained that friendship, you're sitting across the table from a stranger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I was at my men's group this week and they were talking about that and they said the guy asked have you ever sat with someone? And you just sat in silence and just sat there. And I raised my hand and said, yeah, me and my wife do that all the time. We'll sit there and have a cup of coffee and then I'll look up and grin at her and smile and she smiles back at me and we go back to, we go back to our coffee, just staring at his face and and that's our, I guess our new love language. You know so, and it's, it's, it's wonderful, you know, cause we have that understanding, you know.
Speaker 2:But I guess she was. She rescued me, cause me, because I went to school for my little puppy love thing and then it just kind of like it, meeting her just brought me into another realm of growth and and I want pretty much coming on the up and up and she hails from a town in Connecticut, madison, connecticut, which is a pretty upper crust neighborhood. I should say, and I tell the people I was Sidney Poitier when I met her family. I was Sidney Poitier, guess. I met her family. I was Sidney Poitier, guess. Who's?
Speaker 1:coming to dinner. Oh my gosh, I got to stop you there for just a second because, when you're describing this, I was just about to ask you is this like a guess, who's coming to dinner? Kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's too funny, Exactly, and I told people, I said, and I got tons of stories I hope stories I can share about how I met my in-laws and stuff and she was so afraid to tell her parents that she, that she liked me, you know. But it's funny, though, how God works things out Because, like I said, we were in shows together and going back to my parents, like you know, when we have shows all the parents would come up, but the shows my parents were working all the time they couldn't be at the shows. And I was going through a thing where you know we do our shows, I would sneak out the backstage door because I didn't want to explain, because I got tired of explaining to my friends and fellow students. You know, my mom can't make it, she's working. My dad can't make it because he's working, which were true, Because from my house to the college it's like an eight-hour ride on the, you know, New Jersey to Mass Pike, up to the school.
Speaker 2:So there was one night, you know, she caught, caught me doing that, sneaking out the back door, and she felt sorry for me. So that's what really kind of started the, the romance a little bit, because, uh, when her parents would come up and she would ask her mom, mom, can roy, can roy come? You know, dinner with us and everything. And my mother-in-law, she cracks me up. She said she's. I knew there was something going on here because, Cause, every time we come up here, you know, you're, you know. And she said she didn't mind that every time we go out to dinner, she, you know, asking you, tag along, and I'm just like you know. So she was kind of my saving grace there for a little bit and and we developed, like I said, we developed a friendship. You know that was the. She compensated for that. You know the loneliness of just not having my family up there for things and stuff. And she brought me into a lot of things and and exposed me to a lot of things. I had my first lobster with her, which is, by the way, Madison, Madison, Connecticut, Connecticut has the best seafood in the world and just a lot of things. And, like I said, I was Sidney Poirier. You know, when I met her family, I was sitting there like hello, Hello, this and that.
Speaker 2:And when we decided to get married another pivotal moment when her dad called me into the living room, he asked me the question and he knew that we were really growing close and he asked me he says what do you think about this interracial thing, you know, with my daughter? How do you feel about that? And I think I remember saying something like sir, I love your daughter very, very much and we've grown close together. And I said I'm just trying to be successful in life and I will take care of her and I just I love her. And I said that's, my main focus is to be a success in life. And I think that said something like that. And I remember my father-in-law. He just said, Hmm, okay, sounds good. And that was it. So I was sweating bullets, boy, you know. You know, sitting there cause I'm just like this guy, you know, yeah, I'm in, I'm in theater, Like that's a big job, career boost. You know that's going to make money and I want to take your daughter away.
Speaker 2:They live in a wonderful, like I said, Madison Connecticut is upper crust society and even though, when I met their friends, their their parents friends, and I remember going to dinner parties and stuff and people like, oh, this is my daughter's fiance and I'm like hello, many people and but, however, I have to hand it to my in-laws, you know, they welcomed me, they took me in. They welcomed me, they took me in. And I think one memory I have of my mother-in-law, before she passed, I was in the living room one time. She was a very smart woman, very, very smart woman, and she pulled me to the side.
Speaker 2:She said, Roy, if I ever made you feel uncomfortable, I apologize. And I said, no, Mom, you've never made me feel uncomfortable. And I said, no, mom, you, you've never made me feel uncomfortable. And I said well, you know why are you saying that? She says well, you know she's. She went on to say that I grew up in an Irish Catholic neighborhood in Connecticut and back in those times, you know, you know, I, our, you know our people were on one side of the road, your people on one side of the road. And she says when I was a little girl, I used to walk past this, you know, black church and they had the gospel music and it sounded so good I wanted to go in there.
Speaker 2:I said, mom, you should have went in there, we would have gave you a tamarind. You know, that's right, you know. And she started laughing. But she says that when I see you with my children now that I know what I know now she says when I see you with my children, it's like you're supposed to be there. And I said wow. I said thank you, mom. I almost broke into tears about that and that just resonated with me. That's who I am now. About people it connected with my military career, just meeting people, because people are people.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I don't believe that there are races of people. I believe there's one race. The only difference is that some of us have more melanin in our skin than others. That's it. But DNA is the same, biology is the same, anatomy is the same, everything is the same. We just make it that way. But she was just just.
Speaker 2:And then my found out, my, my brother in law. I found out I was the favorite son in law. So, yeah, they would complain to her. But you're always cooking for Roy and this. And that I said hey. She said hey, he eats my cooking. What are you complaining about? You know, I mean, she would cook for me and I remember she made one dish for me and she and she said, well, how does it taste? And I said, mom, and I would joke with her. I said, mom, wpf. She said WPF. I said, yeah, that's white people food. And she said, well, roy, what, what, what, what, what must I do? I said I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what to do. Mom, you got to put your foot in it, you got to put some grease in it, you got to put your love into it. And she would cook for me all the time and we just had the greatest moments together sitting there and I love that woman. Oh my gosh, she was so funny.
Speaker 1:So I want to talk a little bit too about so you, you get to college, you meet your future wife. Um, now, maybe I didn't catch it, but did you get? Did you get married while you were still in college or when you, when you graduated?
Speaker 2:Uh no, we went through two years of schooling together and we came to that place where we got ready to graduate. And that was another pivotal moment where she, we had to decide what we're going to do with this relationship. I mean, and the funny thing is that we met I met my wife when my freshman year of college, so I met her since I was 18. And I think we've been inseparable since then and we graduated and we decided to which I don't recommend we decided to live together. I tell people don't do that, not that it's horrible, it's just that of course it's inappropriate but it steals so much away from the relationship it really does. But we decided to live together and I have to say my father-in-law, if he knew what I had his daughter living in the first two years of us getting married, he would kill me. He would kill me when we were living together, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:But we graduated school and we lived together for about two years and we went to New York City to try to make it Right Working, and I think I was working as a bookkeeper at a museum or something. She was a dental assistant and I would go to New York City and just audition and take classes at night. And she became a Christian and she came in one night and she said hey, you know, I believe God. This is not the way God wants us to live. You know, we, we need to get married. We're going to get married. I'm going back home and of course I knew I loved her. Women always got it together. Women always got the us, guys we're. We're always last one to get on the train.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah yeah you know, and I and I, I realized that I loved her and I said, okay, we got married and, believe it or not, we got married in highland falls, uh-huh, and my reception was on West Point Military Academy. Believe it or not, not a lot of people can say that yeah Well, my mom had connections, my parents had connections, so we got married in the church that I grew up in in Highland Falls and then we had the reception in West Point. And we had a reception in West Point and we got married. And so after we got married, I decided I remember I had an epiphany.
Speaker 2:I just came out of a class in New York City and I just realized I said, you know, entertainment, I don't think I want to do this anymore. Not that I couldn't do it, I just kind of knew that I don't want to do this anymore, not that I couldn't do it. I just kind of knew that I don't want to do this anymore. And I realized, because, first of all, I was anybody would tell you, in the entertainment field, you can't have a wife or a girlfriend, which I had a wife and you can't have a car. I had a car. You can't even have like a permanent residence, which I did In the entertainment field.
Speaker 2:Anybody would tell you, if you make it at a young age, you are very, very fortunate if you make it at a young age. But a lot of these actors and actresses they're playing parts of people in their 30s when they're really actually in their 40s, their late 40s or 50s, and it's it's, it's. It's a tough life, you know. Yeah, it looks like they're making lots of money, but you got to do it's really hard, it's really really hard and you got to be really fortunate.
Speaker 2:So my wife said what do you want to do? And I said you know, I grew. You got to remember, bill, my me think about this military, because the reason why I had a resistance at first to the military, because I was eight years old and we remember to go pick my dad up and work at West Point on his job and I remember this busload of freshmen coming in and they would get off the bus and these upperclassmen came out of nowhere and started chewing these kids out and I'm like, oh my gosh, who would ever sign up for this? This is ridiculous. This is the military.
Speaker 1:I don't want any part of this.
Speaker 2:So when I thought about considering the military, I was like, oh boy, that was my impression of the military. So I decided to go down to the recruiter's office and lo and behold, I'm on a bus going to Fort Dix before I know it. And lo and behold, I'm on a bus going to Fort Dix before I know it, and part of that story is my best friend, who we are still friends to this day. We were supposed to go on the buddy. You know they have that buddy program. Oh, yes, yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and he was supposed to go with me but he pulled out the last minute and I was so mad at him, so mad at him and I said but I knew I had to do this, so I joined and I remember, you know, getting on that bus and you know they don't tell you the whole story because you know you bring you on a bus. You go to reception station again. They were nice to me and I said, oh, this. I remember calling my wife. I said this is basic training. Oh, this is nice. You got hamburger burgers and you get to sleep in. I said, oh. My wife said how's basic training? I said, oh, I love it, this is great. Not not knowing I was at the reception station. So I got the reception station, got my shots, got everything. Everything's great.
Speaker 2:I remember that some colonel came out and gave a speech Welcome to the United States Army and gentlemen, go through that door and begin your basic training. Oh, my gosh, bill. I remember going through that door and the biggest guys I've ever saw in my life screaming and yelling at us. And I don't know if you remember the old cattle cars. Oh, yes.
Speaker 1:You remember? I don't think I spent a lot of time in cattle cars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the cattle cars. I think a lot of new soldiers don't, don't, don't have that experience. But you're screaming at us, we're bumping into each other, we're jumping into the cattle cars and stepping all over each other, scared to death. And I'm sitting there going like, oh my gosh, I just threw my life away. And I remember my first formation, standing out there like, oh, what did I do? What did I do? And not knowing that it was the best decision of my life.
Speaker 2:So went to basic at Fort Dix in 1982. There was only a few of us that were in our 20s, mostly, as you know, everybody's in their high school age. Oh yeah, they called us the old men, but I enlisted at 22 and married at that too, and I sent my wife back to her parents, let me go finish basic training and all that. And I remember when, just before graduation, she came down to see me and the drill sergeant let her seat visit me, and she looked at me. She said what did they do to you? I dropped like 30 pounds. And I remember we were walking on the campus or whatever and she said hold my hand. I just like. I thought it was a drill sergeant behind every bush Right. I'm not going to hold your hand, you know, but we got through it.
Speaker 2:And that was my initial entry into the military, you know, and I'm so glad I did it. You know, I ended up being a squad leader and I ended up being a platoon leader at the end of a cycle.
Speaker 1:So it was great. So what was your job in the Army? What was your MOS and where did you go to AIT and all that stuff?
Speaker 2:Well, my MOS, like I said, I was a bookkeeper in civilian life. So I remember sitting down with a recruiter and he's like ask me, what do you want to do? I don't know, you know I don't have a clue. You know, you know. You look in that book. You don't know what that, what those things mean. I said anything that's got accounting in it, and back in the day it was called 76 Papa, material Control and Accounting Specialist and I said, ok, sign me up for that. Not knowing, in layman's terms, supply Right.
Speaker 1:You know supply, they write those descriptions, so they sound just so amazing, right, and?
Speaker 2:then it's like oh yeah, they sound like I'm doing something really important. Because the people say, what are you doing in the military? I'm a material control and accounting specialist, that's what I do. And those that know it like, oh yeah, he's doing supply, he's doing supply and I signed up for that and I went to. When I completed basic training I went to Fort Lee, fort Lee, virginia and went up there and thank goodness the course was self-paced. So at that time I don and thank goodness the course was self-paced. So at that time I don't know if it is now, but now it's called, I think it's 92 alpha, now alpha and um went up there and uh for logistics school and and graduated there.
Speaker 2:And at that time I was like so homesick for my wife because I remember we got ready to graduate and I remember the, the NCO, came out there. Okay, gentlemen, guys, you know you gotta don't? You know if you, if you're married, you should really just go down to your duty station and then send for your wife. And me and my wife did something crazy. Bill, I said I was so homesick for my wife. I said, get on the plane, we're gonna fly down the Fort Bliss ourselves. And and I never forget it was an evening flight. We were both of us were terrified. We got on a plane go to the Fort Bliss I'm reporting to duty. We didn't know, we didn't have a car, we didn't know what we were going to do. And we got to Fort Bliss and we checked in at the guest house and I remember my wife was so nervous she threw up in the bathroom. I'm sitting there going like, oh my gosh, you know. And then, when the sun came up, I realized the airport's right across the street from the post and I was like, okay, however, and then, like you know, I took cabs and I reported to my unit and immediately, the military culture just embraced us. You know, I mean, I got right. I didn't have a car, so I had rides to work. We lived off post for a little bit. They got us set up for our apartment. We were able to just really rather relatively quickly set up housekeeping and everything and just settle in.
Speaker 2:I was a because of my college. I came in as an E3, as a BFC, and my unit, my platoon sergeant, was really cool and the funny thing is, god bless us, my platoon sergeant. Never forget him. Sergeant Lewis, we had the same last name Sergeant Lewis. You can't get away from it, that's it. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. Everything goes 360. And I'm sitting there and immediately of course I'm going to ask him where did your set of Lewises come from? If he would have said Highland Falls, I would have just fell on my face, you know, and unbelief. But my platoon sergeant, sergeant Lewis he was really cool Got me set up my platoon.
Speaker 2:I was in a quartermaster platoon and actually I learned to love being a supply guy, because I never realized that supply guys they call us like, we're like the, we're like the. I guess they call it like the drug dealers of the military. You know, we sit back here If you're. If you got four blankets and I got five canteens, you need one. We just walk, you know and and trade and everything. And when I was in the quartermaster school they said, hey, your job is beans, bullets and mail, so you take care of those three things, you're good to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I can tell you my supply sergeant saved my bacon more than once by being able to do a couple drug deals to get the stuff that we needed to be square when we were doing inspections and things like that. So Fort Bliss was your first duty station then.
Speaker 2:Fort Bliss, yep, the home of the 11th Brigade. And how long were you there? I was there almost three years. I was there. I didn't know a lot about El Paso, because I tell people when you hear about the problems that we have at the border, I told people I grew up. I said the border was just outside my window. I could take a rock and hit it. You know it was that close.
Speaker 2:But Fort Bliss I went down there for Sergeant Major's Academy as well, and El Paso just kind of, it's out there in the desert. It's got that big mountain out there. So if you're ever lost you just follow the mountain. But El Paso, when I was there for three years, you know, uh, I had my brother. He was at that time, he was in houston. They're like, hey, come over. I'm like, yeah, okay, by car. It's like almost 10 hours. Texas is a gigantic state so you have to maneuver around really by plane. It's so big. But however, I was uh, el pasoo border, the Mexican border, so they don't do it much anymore. But that back in that time we were allowed to cross the border to go there for lunch and oh, my goodness, the real Mexican food is off the chain off the chain. We would go down there and fresh tortillas and real Mexican food. It doesn't compare to what's here in the States. You know, you're still you think Taco Bell's good. You haven't had Mexican food, real Mexican food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, um I couldn't agree more my uh my, my brother-in-law is from Mexico and whenever he cooks for us, it's, it's amazing, absolutely amazing he cooks for us.
Speaker 2:It's it's amazing, absolutely amazing. Yeah, oh my gosh, it's so good and we go over there and do shopping and this and that, and I think the town's called juarez just the mexican people really nice. And it's kind of interesting though, uh, because now my son, my, my daughter-in-law's from puerto rico, so now I'm learning Spanish. You know just all the culture and stuff like that. So I've got a little bit of a head start on that. But you know, when I did my three years down there, when I got time for me to get discharged, we were thinking about staying down there. At one time I was thinking about maybe getting a job with the Border Patrol or something down there, but that's a dangerous job. Job with the border patrol or something down there, but that's a dangerous job. But uh.
Speaker 2:But we loved el paso because another benefit was that, uh, when we had time off, we, if you go continue west on i-5, you can hit la in about 10 hours, I think 10 or 11 hours. So we would go there sometimes for for trips to go. We've been to um. New mexico was gorgeous. You know a lot of people in new mexico. It's not in the news a lot, but it's a beautiful place. Mexico, arizona uh, beautiful. Um, I didn't ever went to uh nevada, but california we spent a lot of time in california, uh, or, if you go further up north, a lot of soldiers would go. I think it's only six hours of Colorado to go skiing, stuff like that.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't know it, but it's actually a pretty good spot. If you want to go do a bunch of other things, then yeah, it is, it really is.
Speaker 2:It really is. It's a beautiful place and the heat is more of a dry heat. The heat is more of a dry heat, so it's not so much a humid heat. But my only qualms about El Paso it's kind of like out there, like I said, when I went to 2007, I went to 17, I went to the Sergeant Major's Academy and Fort Bliss. They put on post an entire mall. It's like a mall on post and I guess they did that so they wanted to keep the soldiers pretty much on on base, you know, not wandering across the border and stuff, because we've had a, you know, issues of soldiers going across the border, getting in trouble and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, so you did so you did, uh, one tour of duty so you went. You went to basic. You did your. So you did one tour of duty so you went to basic. You did your AIT. You go to Fort Bliss, so did you discharge from the active duty out of Fort Bliss then?
Speaker 2:when I went to a job fair when I was on active duty. I went to school at night and I started getting into computer technology. I started getting into it. I started going to school at night, learning about computer information systems and all that, and studying at night. And it's so funny though, I had an opportunity.
Speaker 2:There was a captain I met. He was going to make me, he was going to give me an opportunity to transfer into his unit I think the MOS is called 74 Fox, which is computer programmer, and he had it all set up for me. But this crazy first sergeant we had you know. The captain said I'm going to call you a unit, see if I can get clearance to transfer you over. Well, this crazy first sergeant we had intercepted that call and and told the captain no, no, we're not going to release Lewis without consulting our commander. Right, and I had you know. I saw the captain. I said hey, what's going on? I mean, where's my transfer? He says well, you talk to your first sergeant. He said no, and boy, I was hot, boy, I was hot at that. And I went and complained and the commander said I would have proved it that's the funny thing, he said if I would have got that call, I would have approved your transfer, but by that time the opportunity went away.
Speaker 2:But, however, I went to a job fair and this is the truth. I went to a job fair and I put out some resumes and there was a table set up by the CIA. So, just for kicks and giggles, I just threw a resume on the table and just walked away and billed while I was still on active duty. While I was still on active duty, I got a call from the CIA wanting or well, actually a letter. It comes with a letter, then followed up by a call that we'd like to interview you. And I'm like, really, and I'm thinking like, yeah, I will be a special, I'll be James Bond. Yeah, right, right, that's what everybody thinks.
Speaker 1:I said hell yeah.
Speaker 2:And I talked to my wife about it. I was still in the Army at the time and they flew me down to Washington and the application is 10 pages back in front of my entire. I couldn't leave any gaps. You know I had to put in when I was an amoeba, you know everything. So I built the application. They fly me down there and they make you paranoid because they're like don't tell anybody you're applying for this job, don't tell anybody you're you're. You know that you're being considered for this and what they were considering me for was a telecommunications specialist. So I said, yeah, yeah, I don't care what is I'll, you know CIA, I'll take it.
Speaker 2:Well, I that was my decision to leave the military and I decided to get out, got back and I moved back to Holland Falls with my parents to stay a little bit it was during the summertime and to get through the interview process. And my wife was pregnant and I was I say I was so excited about that because she miscarried twice before this time. So she was pregnant again and we were excited. She was, you know, incubating the baby still. So we moved back to Holland Falls to stay with my parents. I have my pregnant wife living in my room. I grew up as a kid. He managed my self-esteem at the time yes and so to get through this interview process.
Speaker 2:So they flew me down a second time to DC for interviews. I had a lie detector test. I had an interview with the shrink. I went through all this stuff and here's you might appreciate this, bill. It was so funny, though. I had to take a Morse code exam and I went in there with like 30 guys and I put the headphones on so you would hear a beep, which is the eye Right, which is an N, and a whoosh or something that was a T, and they give you those three sounds. So they hit the button. I hear I'm going real good Beep. I'm filling out the thing circling the test paper. All of a sudden the thing speeds up a hundred miles an hour and I'm on question 25. The tape is like on question 65 and I'm going oh my gosh, what? So, being a good Soldier, I just Close my eyes and build it out any way I can. Oh no, oh no.
Speaker 2:So we went back into the lobby. They filtered us back into the lobby, so they called our names one by one and as each guy went in and he'd come out. And the guy would come out and we were like, hey man, what happened? And every guy would say, no, they told me to go home, I'm done, that's it. So, one by one, everybody's going in, coming out, going home, and I hear Lewis, and I remember, and I exactly.
Speaker 2:I turned to the, to the guys and said well, let me go get my rejection. So I went in there. I went in there and the guy said have a seat. I said have a seat. What are you talking about? He said have a seat. You passed. How, how does that happen? I felt like forrest gump. I said this, this is, this is in the bag, man. So I sat down and went through another series of tests and all this other kind of stuff. So they sent me back home to wait for the results.
Speaker 2:So we spent the whole entire summer of 1986 at my parents' house with my pregnant wife. And then I'm just, my unemployment ran out and I'm sitting there, so I had to go get a job. So I sent my wife back to her parents and I'm sitting there, waiting and waiting and then all of a sudden my father-in-law calls me on the phone. He says hey, you got a letter from CIA here. You want me to open it. I said, yeah, sure he opens it. And it was a Dear John letter. Thank you for applying this and that.
Speaker 2:And, bill, I think that is one of the greatest moments in my life. I was super, super disappointed. I was so angry. I was angry at God, I was angry at the world. And I'm sitting here.
Speaker 2:These people took up almost three months of my entire life going through their interview process. I passed the fly detector test, I passed the shrink and, lord knows, I passed that Morse code test. Right, you know how could I have not gotten this job? And then, when I I got a, I got the letter, I got called the. I called the CIA. Like I'm like they're going to take my call, right, right, and I'm sitting there going like trying to get some explanation of what happened and, just like you know the government, they said that like I'm sorry, you know, but you, you didn't qualify and tell me. And I still don't know to this day. I still don't know to this day.
Speaker 2:And my wife was being a good wife. She said, oh, things are going to work out. Maybe it's better. I was throwing the tantrum, bill, I was angry. I was super, super angry and so what I did is I started looking for work and I put in a.
Speaker 2:I don't know how it happened, but I put in an application for civil service at West Point and they have a. Not like it is today on the internet you can sit down on your phone and basically look for a job anywhere. But I remember putting in for a job in Boston, of all places, and I got picked up by the Social Security Administration as a computer operator and I remember the lady interviewed me. She called me. She said hey, we want you to come down and interview for this job. And I was really I still had a bad taste in my mouth from the CIA, so I remember telling her I said, if I come down, you know, well, I know I have this job because I'm traveling from New York. And the lady said yeah, we'll let you know if you get the job after your interview.
Speaker 2:Well, long story short, I went down and I got the job and I accepted it with no apartment, no, nothing, no plan, no plan. I said my wife to again to her parents, and I remember I had a cousin. I still have family up in Boston. So I asked a cousin of mine. She let me sleep on her couch for a couple of months until I got money to send for my family. And I was, and that's how I ended up in Boston after the military. But and you know this, after active duty people don't understand that, uh you, you have to go see the reserve or national guard recruiter when you get out of the active component, because they want to that. Their ideology is that you know soldiers that have been in boots, they'll keep you in boots, right, urban reserve or national goal. So that's how I joined the Massachusetts national guard.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know um, one thing I don't think a lot of people understand either is that, um, if you do a three-year stint, right, there's still this inactive reserve obligation at the end of that contract, and so I think a lot of times the guard reserve are like hey, you still have this obligation.
Speaker 2:Why not get paid for it? Yeah, and I had to explain I didn't quite understand that myself as well, until they had the call up for Desert Shield, because as a drill instructor and I'll go into that story later on how I became a drill sergeant but when they're calling up people, people, you're right, people that did two years active or three years active or four years, they didn't realize that they had that extra. It's a total six years commitment. They just make it more palatable for soldiers to know that, oh, you can come and serve two years and you're scot-free, you don't owe another four, you're going what we call the inactive component.
Speaker 1:Sorry, major, I don't mean to interrupt you, but when I was deployed to Iraq, my radio operator had to be sent back home due to illness. This kid from New York shows up. He's my radio operator. He's my radio operator and he's this. I don't know how to best, I'm just going to describe him best as I can. He was a fairly large kid, a big black kid from like Brooklyn. And he shows up, nicest guy, knew what he was doing, loved working with him, but he showed up and he goes. I goes. I am not gonna lie. I was sitting on the couch in my apartment eating cheetos when I get this phone call that they're activating me on this irr thing because I'm a radio operator and you needed me. So that's no joke.
Speaker 2:They will call you up if they need you I heard, as a matter of fact, my special ops team, our commander, got replaced by some guy that was in the IIR. Some major came on here. We got nervous because when he got on the ground I think he was something in real estate or something he was like some done hoe, he wanted to get out there. I'm like, hey, dude, we are, are here, this is our function here in iraq. We're not here to go out and find, shoot bad guys. And he wanted to do that. You know, we're like dude, you're gonna get all of us killed, you know, and that's one too many movies yeah, yeah, you're you.
Speaker 2:You know you gotta be careful here. This is the real deal over here. Yeah, yeah, I that story that you you just told. I've heard that a guy that was making he makes almost a million dollars a year in real estate and all of a sudden he has to come back. He's in the IR, he has to come back and the funny thing is people don't understand is that what rank you left with? You have to come back in under that same rank. So I know that. I think the Army fixed that. You know how do you? You leave a million dollar salary and you come back and make living off of the E five salary. That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work. It just doesn't work.
Speaker 2:It's ridiculous, it's definitely a big thing. So I got out and got job in Boston and I joined the Massachusetts guard. Because I love the military, I always wanted to stay and the funny thing, the guy who swore me in was my uncle Captain, captain in the Massachusetts Guard. So he swore me in and it's so funny, though Years later I would tell him he would see me, he says I didn't know you were going to eventually be a Sergeant Major. Oh, my goodness, you were just like a. I think I was an E4 when I got out an E4 specialist. At the time he said you know, but yeah, I stayed in the mass guard for a number of years and did that and I found a job as, like I said, a computer operator. I was working for the social security administration, computer operations. And then I left that job and went to another company, a civilian company, as a computer operator and worked there for about a year and all of a sudden, for some reason, they decided to close their data center in Boston and they turned. You know. They said hey guys, we're going to close our data center. However, our headquarters are in Columbia, south Carolina. So if you want a job, you're welcome to do that.
Speaker 2:And by that time we had our second child in Boston. And if anybody knows anything about Massachusetts altogether, really Boston it's super expensive, just really super expensive, to raise a family there. So when I mentioned it to my wife I said, hey, what do you think about the Carolinas? And she was like, hey, I don't care. So I had to put a packet in through the Massachusetts National Guard to join the South Carolina National Guard. Right, and they took it and I transferred. So I transferred with my job and I transferred with the guard down to the South Carolina Guard and we moved down to South Carolina.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a lot. I mean, that's kind of a whoof you were kind of all over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. So the good thing is that me and my wife, you know, we look back and we count our blessings, that you know we always play the game of like what happened if we would have stayed in New York, what would have been the circumstances if we didn't move, or like what would be different if we stayed in El Paso. You know, we always play that game. We always play that game, oh yeah, but I think that God has given us a healthy appetite. You know courage, you know, because I'm not going to say it's not as easy. I mean, yeah, there were times we were just terrified, like I said, we told the story.
Speaker 2:We went to Fort Bliss. We were scared to death or just leaving the Army. That was because, you know, I was even. You know that culture, because my son right now he's active duty but he's down, he's done 17 years and we're having conversations now. I told him I said, hey, guy, time's coming where those hour to have lunches will go away. You know those training holidays where you get to eat. You know, you know how the military connects the three-day weekends or four-day weekends together. Oh, yes, all the way yeah, it changes.
Speaker 1:It changes when you leave the, when you leave that cocoon of the military.
Speaker 2:It really does. Yeah, I told my son. You know, even his commander said, when he got to because he was, he went to germany first and then he went to italy. But his commander said uh, okay guys, welcome to Europe. You know, this is the. This is going to be a nice vacation for you, I mean assignment for you. You know, while you're over here and they got it made the military life is very nice. It's now, no surprises, very comfortable. Good thing is we take care of each other and we watch out for the families and, however, there's going to come a time you're going to come back to the real world and the real world is not like that. You know cause? I mean, let's face it, bill, I did 36 years. I think they had to kick me out. I probably would have stayed. They told me I could stay for 10 years. I probably would stay the whole time.
Speaker 1:You know how we do, yeah no, I I'm, you know, I'm with you. I have a very similar, yeah, experience, uh, with that. So yeah, um, but so you get down to south carolina, you're allowed to join the south carolina national guard is what I'm hearing yeah, I joined the 742nd maintenance company.
Speaker 2:They're still still active to this day. A lot of people don't know that in the National Guard system there are several states that have a good reputation. Their guard system has a great system like Georgia is one, I think, california is one, iowa is another one and South Carolina is one One, iowa is another one and South Carolina is one Our maintenance company and I mean when I moved down there I was almost getting deployed or called on active duty almost on a yearly basis. You know we had a good reputation Because you know the stigma with the National Guard. You know I've heard it do so.
Speaker 2:Many active duty guys say they don't like working with the Guard because certain guard units they show up they're not prepared. They're. Some of the soldiers are not Physically fit, they're not, you know, professional and stuff like that. And but our unit we got high marks whenever we got called active duty. That when we, when we showed up, we were ready to go, you know, ready to, we look like soldiers, behave like soldiers, we're professional at all times. So 742nd was always asked by name, by the active component, to serve and that really spoke volumes to us. So you know, when I moved down there. I really felt comfortable with that. Now, however, being in the Guard and you can attest to this as well bill that to get promoted, you have to wait for people to die for crying out loud. That is no lie. That is no lie yeah, it's like man, I was uh.
Speaker 2:I was uh, before I started getting ranked, I was a 38 year old e5, you know. And there were, and the guys that in front of me there was a one guy that was like he didn't care, he was like a 60 year old e4 and other guys there were like six or seven guys that were way older than me that were e5s. Well, in your, in, your in your active duty.
Speaker 1:counterparts look at that and wonder what you did wrong to be stuck. And you're that old, they don't get that Like. You have the civilian life that goes on and you're serving in the guard, so how long were you in the South Carolina?
Speaker 2:Guard. Then I was in the South Carolina Guard for about five years and we were in Columbia, south Carolina. A beautiful place down in Fort Jackson was where my, my unit is and I, I love that unit, guys in there and and just for that reason, what we just mentioned about promotion was super slow. I almost quit, I almost resigned altogether. And there was a buddy of mine, a sergeant Baxter. He's out now. I think he ended up making E7 by the time he got out and I told him we had a drill weekend and he was like you know. I said, hey, man, I'm thinking about getting out. And he said, man, have you seen your sheet? So he made you know, he made me look at, look at my personnel sheet. He says, dude, you got, you got like at that time, 13, 14 years in, you know. He says he says, man, you're almost close to the 20-year requirement. And he said if I were you I wouldn't, I wouldn't quit. So he talked me into staying in to the guard system.
Speaker 2:But that wasn't a pivotal moment for me. I was somewhere in a training exercise and I cannot remember this NCO's name, but this guy from the army reserve. We were out there training at the range and he came up to me and said, hey, dude, the army reserve, we have a drill sergeant program. You know, uh, we're looking for people. Would you be interested? And of course I'm looking at him like he's crazy, cause, this time I'm like 39 years old. I'm like, yeah, okay, and he gave me all the information. So I started looking at him like he's crazy, cause, this time I'm like 39 years old. I'm like, yeah, okay, and he gave me all the information. So I started looking at it. And you know that the physical fitness exam, you know, and people don't understand that's another thing. To stay in the military, you have to pass the physical fitness tests, you have to heighten weight, all that stuff Every year, every year, every year. Now some yes, I hear the voices from the gods above yeah, there are some people that skirt around it, but eventually you have to keep up with it Some kind of way. Yes, and I read the requirements for a drill instructor, because you know when a regular soldier, you have to do 60%. At that time it was 60% in three events Push-up, sit-up, two-mile run, got it To be a drill instructor. You've got to do 80%. And I'm looking at this stuff and I'm going. How is this going to happen? So by this time I accepted a job in North Carolina. We transferred to relocate to North Carolina, where I'm at now Charlotte. I joined the North Carolina we transferred to, we moved to relocate to North Carolina, where I'm at now Charlotte.
Speaker 2:I joined the North Carolina Guard and I have this still thinking about this opportunity to join the Drill Sergeant Corps. And I remember going to the gym and a good friend of mine I hope she's watching this broadcast Sherry Gannett, she's a trainer. I gave her the paperwork. I said, hey, I'm thinking about doing this drill sergeant thing, can you help me meet these numbers? And she's like, oh, yeah, sure, yeah, I can do that, no problem, man. I tell you, bill man, you talk about the Rocky movies, man. She put me in the gym and she ran me. I remember I can't do it much anymore, but she had me do the leg press. I had like eight plates on each side. I said, sherry, what are you doing? I still want to have kids, what are you doing? And she said, hey, you got to get your legs this and you got to do this, you got to do this.
Speaker 2:And I remember I fill out the paperwork and I signed up for drill sergeant school and at that time it was a year long for reserves. So I went. I had to go to the drill sergeant school, which is in Fort Jackson still there today, if you're looking for it. We call them iron Mike. There's a statue of a drill sergeant at the position of attention at the front door. We call them iron Mike. That's where you are.
Speaker 2:We went to that school and for a year I remember it's like taking basic training all over again and I had my moments. Let's put it this way. I had my moments and there were times I'm used to being the fastest, the strongest. Well, I mean, we started with a class of 67 NCOs and we got out there and I was second to last or third to last or whatever, and couldn't run as fast as I could and just sweating. South Carolina, anybody tell you, it's the hottest place on earth during the summer.
Speaker 2:And I'm sitting there and I'm going. What am I doing? Why am I doing this? I'm too old for this. What am I doing? And I tell you, bill, there was one day we went on a run and I sat down, me and this other guy he was like in his 39 as well. And I'm sitting there just having a feeling sorry for myself and this drill sergeant leader came up to me. He says hey, lewis, I appreciate what you're doing. You're doing a good job, just hang in there. I know you feel like you're not the strongest. And he said something that stuck to me to this day. He just said hey, you know the story of the tortoise and the hare. I said, yeah, I know that story. He said the tortoise will always win the race and walked away and, bing, the light bulb came on. He says so he basically was telling me that you don't have to be the first, you don't have to be the strongest, you don't have to be the fastest, just finish.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Finish. That's all you got to do and I went on and I never. That's one of the and that's one of, uh, one of the. It is the greatest achievement in my military career. I've got my hat right here. You can't see it. But uh, I got my drill sergeant badge on my uniform and I wear that thing with pride when I walk into the mess hall and they see that badge on my uniform for you, you can't tell me anything, brother, mess hall. And they see that badge on my uniform, boy, you, you can't tell me anything, brother. I'll tell you anything. Because when I graduated I got my hat and sergeant major pulled, put that on my head and my wife was like she said you know, I got home, she said, honey, you can take your hat off now. I said I'm not taking it off. I said, hey, I'm gonna take a bath with that thing on. I'm gonna walk around with that thing.
Speaker 2:I earned that sucker, sucker and um, wow, I love being. It's the hardest job in the army. I'm telling you it's the most hardest job, cause there was, like it's not a nine to five, you know, no, nine to five when I had a cycle. I'm up, I'm I'm up prepping at 4.00 AM and then I put those puppies to bed around nine o'clock and then I'm I don't get into bed to maybe midnight, you know, prepping for the next day.
Speaker 2:But my, I think the payoff for me was just watching these kids come from all over the country. These people didn't have the confidence scared just like I was, like I told in the story going to Fort Dix, you know, not confident, being afraid, not worrying about what comes next, don't even know what to do, and taking these individuals and molding them into to be soldiers for 10 weeks. And then when they walk across that field, their chest all out, and I told people, drill sergeants, don't cry, their eyeballs sweat. We don't cry, that's right. But I can't tell you, bill, the many times the soldiers would come up to us and say thank you for not quitting on me, thank you for not giving up on me, thank you for pushing me. And I always say, hey, it's like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, you know you could click, it's in you, it was in you all along. We just brought it out Right.
Speaker 2:And I mess around with the parents and I see a father looking at his daughter, going like, and his daughter is like standing there all lean and mean and looking sharp, and and he's like, what did you guys do to her? I said, well, sir, first of all we got her away from you. Okay, right, we got inside them, we pushed them, we made them become soldiers. They have that. No man, leave no one behind. Mentality, you know. Integrity, they know all the army values, you know. So it's very, very rewarding the drill instructors. I know the.
Speaker 2:The stereotype of the drill stars is real hardcore. You know get choked up when we see our trainees go through the process, 10-week process of just growth and development, transformation, and when they graduate it does leave a lump in our throat to see them just kind of develop through the whole cycle Because, again, a 10-week cycle, people think that's a long time, but it's really not a lot of time to develop, to take a civilian you know that raw civilian and transform them into a soldier, you know. So we go through that and it's a lot of when you throw all the psychology in there and, like I said before, bringing putting 60 individuals together and getting them to function together, inculcate to the military environment, is really difficult. It's not a lot of time and my hat goes off to the drill sergeant corps, really of all the branches. It's a tough job.
Speaker 1:Well, and so 10 weeks isn't a lot of time to get somebody ready, but it's a lot of time to get to know somebody, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, and the relationships that are formed. We get a front row seat to see how that happens. Because, as I said before, it's really unique to see the process, because when they come in, they are immediately assigned a platoon or a company and we drill down. Everybody has a battle buddy everybody's heard that term before battle buddy and we don't let them pick their own battle buddy. You know, they, we, we mix it up, we mix it up a little bit and uh, at first they can't stand each other.
Speaker 2:I, I crack up laughing because they just look at each other and we give them a mandate Like you've got 24 hours to find out about your battle buddy, if he's married, if he has kids, where he's from, and uh, and we, you know, we hold them accountable every turn to to build, to start to festering those relationships, because if you don't, of course, just like in the civilian world, people go to their own corners. They go, people care about their foreign, no more so. But the military culture is totally different. We can't function like that. Everybody is accountable to everybody, and that's what I really love about that.
Speaker 1:You know the amazing thing for me in basic training. So I went to basic training like back in 1984. So it was a few years ago but what? What shocked me more than anything else was you had people from all over the country and some folks hadn't seen folks that looked different from them and I couldn't, I couldn't relate to that. I mean, I grew up in a, in a, in a city where you know we all look different from each other. But I remember this kid from like oklahoma had never, never, met a black person before right, and it happened and it was.
Speaker 1:It was a shock to them, but the thing, the thing about having having a battle buddy, is that, um, when you start learning stuff about people and when you start knowing people, it's really hard. It's really hard to um, most of the time, it's really hard to not like them for the wrong reasons. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And we had the same experience too. I saw we had this guy in our platoon. He was kind of like from New Jersey Italian guy and I called him. You know, this is before I became a squad leader. But I called, I overheard him using a racial slur in formation and I didn't say anything about it. But his battle buddy was another black guy. But long story short, at the end of the cycle this guy just did a total turnaround.
Speaker 2:You know, all the walls came down because I mean, let's face it, we're all going through that same rite of passage. You know, every veteran, that's one common thread that we all have in common. And there were days where they had to depend on each other. There's days where you know they would, you know, grab a shoulder and say, hey, man, hang in there, I'll go with you the extra mile, you know. Or hey, I know where they're killing us, we're sweating out here, but if I can make it, you can make it. And they were just pushing and encouraging each other. And that human part of us, I think that is just so instinctive to bringing camaraderie together, bringing togetherness together, like that. They discover that on their own and it's nice to see the eyeballs go up and go wow, you know, I didn't know they're learning things about each other. I didn't know. You know, black people are this way, or italian people are this way, or jewish people are this way. Yeah, man, you're cool, you know, and it just alleviates all those uh, uh misconceptions in their minds.
Speaker 1:I love it well, yeah, and I think that, uh, there's a, there's a lot of power in realizing that, for all the ways we're different, we're a lot alike too, and I think the military goes a long way in helping society overcome some of those things. So how long were you a drill instructor?
Speaker 2:Well, I was fortunate enough On the active duty side of the house. You're only allowed to be a drill sergeant two years, maybe three, because it's very intense, very intense, a lot of high pressure situations. A lot of my drill instructor friends that did it full time were you know they had, you know, marital problems. You know managing their time. I mean you're always over at the company, you're tired all the time, and this really is a stressful job. It really is managing their time. I mean you're always over at the company, you're tired all the time, and this really is a stressful job. It really is.
Speaker 2:But however, as a reservist I went to the active duty school but I had the opportunity to stay under hat for seven years and that gave me the opportunity to do cycles in and out. As long as I can physically do the work, I'm okay, because I wasn't in that intense environment for long periods of time. Because, for instance, the active duty, there were times where they would graduate a cycle and the same day they would pick up a new cycle and it's, like you know, groundhog Day. You're doing the same thing all over again. So you start the modules and everything all over again, pick up an issue and it just and you've got to get the environment is a lot of fun, it's rewarding, but it's also very stressful and you've got to be careful.
Speaker 2:Drills people that do that type of work. You've got to be careful to get some downtime to get out of there. So a lot of times when I got I got called up to go serve in basic training. The full-timers would love it because that we gave them time to go home to their wives and take a break and stuff like that, and we would take over the company okay, so kind of a relief for them I can imagine.
Speaker 1:I could like imagine, um, in that scenario where you're picking up a company right after you've graduated, one that you you might even have a tendency to forget where you're at in the program.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, yeah well, I tell you, when I did my first cycle I mean days, days flew by, and because I'm always thinking like, uh, you know, I know, my anybody that's out there listening, that's been a drill instructor You're constantly thinking of the next thing you've got, you know the next training schedule. We had this gigantic chalkboard out in the company area and it listed our entire day, from zero five to twenty one hundred hours, and it's just like it's to the next to the, the next session, to the next phase and the next phase. So you're always in that training mode and, of course, to be ahead of the game, you're the first one up, you're the last one to go to bed and you're responsible for the company, and it's just such a huge responsibility. Now, the thing about most companies have two to three drill sergeants per company, and that helps a lot too, cause that's I have seen a single drill sergeant run a whole cycle by itself. But that's really they tried to stay away from that, cause that is a lot of responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can. I can only imagine. There's a lot of things I can't imagine doing by myself, but that's, that's one of the big ones. So you did this for seven you did this for seven years and then. So what was like the next phase for you?
Speaker 2:Well, my Joe Sarn company, it's kind of a natural thing. Well, I just started a company, our commander, I was a part of the 108th division here in charlotte, uh, training brigade and and people got to understand like the army has different divisions within. You have the, you know the airborne division, you have the infantry division. Well, I was part of a division called trade off, which is an acronym for training and command. So that's where your drill sergeants are, that's where your AIT is, your specialty schools. Anything to do with training falls under TRADOC, tradoc command. So one of our generals in TRADOC command got the wonderful idea to put these special op teams together to go over and train the Iraqi army. So there were a lot of those teams that were put together to go train the Iraqi army. So, uh, there were a lot of those uh teams that were put together to go train the Iraqi army, the. We were training also the, the special police, I think that's what they were called. Uh, saddam used them as like door kickers. They would just like rod, raid a door, kick in and catch people. Uh, the police. They had training special ops teams for the police as well. So, uh, so I was still in drill sergeant company and they told us that I, matter of fact, I was.
Speaker 2:I saw, I ran into, uh, my old sergeant major that he matter of fact, uh, he owns the business, um, not not far from my house and his. I ran into him there about two days ago. He was the commandant of my drill sergeant school and I talked to him every once in a while and I was talking about that particular mission and I told him that I remember when we got called up, they told us that we would be, it would be like a training environment. We would be in a kind of an enclosed compound training the Iraqis, and I was telling them that when they flew us over there that was not the case. We had to go outside the gate every day. So that made me a little nervous, you know, cause I think I got. You know, we were just thinking we're going to be in this real safe environment and just do all the cool stuff and just run it almost like basic training but for the Iraqis. But no, we trained Iraqis but we had to go outside the gate every day and drive up and down the road and when it was all said and done, we took a couple of IEDs here and there and got shot at a bunch of times.
Speaker 2:But when I got over there, I got towards the end of my year over there, I got promoted to Master Sergeant. And when you get promoted, you in the, in the army I'm not sure what it is for the rest of the branches, but the army, once you make e8 you have to come out from under the hat, which was like some guys. I've heard some guys turn down promotion. I've heard it well brands, a bunch of guys they love being that we call it the trail, they love being on the trail and they will just, you know, forfeit their promotion just so they we call it the trail, they love being on the trail and they will just, you know, forfeit their promotion just so they can stay on the trail. And I almost did that because I love, I love basic, I really do. But, um, anyway, I was getting older and I said so, I accepted the promotion. So I went into, uh, I became a first sergeant, which is also the second hardest job in the military.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, it is so. When were you so? When, what years were you deployed then?
Speaker 2:And where did you go? I was deployed with the 108th Division. They're still here in Charlotte, but we were tasked out to the 12th Cav and that's where I got my iron horse. I love you know. People don't know what I'm talking about when you see army guys. The army has a cavalry division and you see that big oval patch that has the horse head in the corner. They call that the iron horse and they have a.
Speaker 2:They're very rich with tradition. My son used to be in the cab in out for Carson. When they have their uh ceremonies they all wear the cowboy hats and Stetsons, right and and that's cool, uh. But when we got, we were under the 12th cab for a year and I got my certificate in here. I got my honorary Spurs. I'm not allowed to wear the Stetson but I can wear. They wear the Spurs on their boots as well. So I have my. I'm an honorary member of the Cav but I can wear only the Spurs. But that was kind of cool. So we were under leased under them, under their command, and also, too, I served a little bit under the big red one.
Speaker 1:Okay, and what part of Iraq were you in?
Speaker 2:We were in actually Baghdad. We were at Camp Victory. I've had a chance. That's where we set up headquarters. That's one of Saddam's palaces. They gave us a tour of it. I mean, boy, that guy had it made, because you go inside, outside the city, everything's like trash, and you go into where his palace is and like, wow, you know, and they set up command there. So I was in Baghdad for an entire year but, being able to travel, I had a chance to go to Ramadi, had a chance to go to what are some of the other places it escapes me for the moment, but just to go travel around and throughout the cities and towns around Baghdad.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so how was your deployment overall? It sounds like you guys saw a little bit of action over there. Anything stand out from that deployment?
Speaker 2:Well, when every unit, anyone that's been deployed before they know they've heard of the term right seat ride when we get deployed, you get ready to replace the unit that's already in place. You do what we call a right seat ride, which means that you get there probably a week in advance, two weeks in advance, and your counterparts, they drive you around and show you what you will be doing. You know so me, I was tasked out to a me and a captain. We were tasked out to logistics, to the logistics captain. So we rode around with a logistics team and they were showing us. You know, this is what you do and this is what you have to get your equipment and supplies and all that kind of stuff. So you get deployed. After that is over, then they do a handoff and then you take off.
Speaker 2:So the initial plan was to go and train the Iraqis. We didn't have a compound at that time, but we had to actually drive to this big police station that the Iraqis had downtown and so we would get up, load up there. We had three Humvees and I remember you know, the memory just comes back to me you start checking your vehicles out and you hear all this popping and clicking. So I had to load three weapons. I had to load my nine millimeter pistol, my M16, and then I was a gunner on a truck, so I had the M50 Cal. So you had to pop, click, pop, click, and then you do all radio checks and everything like that. And then we have a thing before you go out the gate, we call a battle drills and we stand out in the parking lot and we in a circle and we have a conversation on OK, what happens if one of the vehicle gets a flat tire? What do you do if you, if, if we get shot at, or you know what's the course of action? See our CEO, and we go over our course of actions. If we take an IED, what's our course of action if we do this? So we, that's all pre thought out, pre discussed and stuff like that. And that's what I really love about the military, cause there's no guesswork. That's one one thing that really impressed me about the military. We go out there. It's like and like. I'll.
Speaker 2:I'll sort of share a quick story. I mean, we, we took contact one time and and everybody did their thing. There was no like stopping and thinking to think about what to do. Everybody was like boom, boom, our medic. He jumped out of the truck.
Speaker 2:One of our lead vehicles took an IED on the front tire and I remember I was in the middle vehicle and I remember we were just about a mile away from the front gate because I remember seeing the American flag and I would go oh good, we got a mile to go. I'm going to go get some chow, take a nap. I'm you know, I'm done for the day. But we were rounding a turn and all of a sudden I heard this poof and the vehicle in front of me. I saw the trunk just blow off, just go off in the air and I'm like, oh my gosh, my buddies are, they're dead, they're gone.
Speaker 2:So we stopped and then we kind of get like in that stagecoach mode. We form like a circle with the vehicles and the gunners. Uh, our job is to like my job being the vehicle, I got the left and right perimeter, the guy in the front has the left and right perimeter in the front and the guy in the rear has the left and right perimeter in the rear, and everybody just did what you're supposed to do and thank God nobody got killed. And being that we're so close to the post, to the camp, we had a tow strap, so guys wouldn't even think it jumped out, hit that tow strap on that lead vehicle and we towed it all the way in, drug it all the way back into maintenance and it was a beautiful execution.
Speaker 1:It's all about muscle memory, right? You do those, you do your pccs, you do your pcis, you do your um. You know all of all of your stuff in the parking lot, you practice all that and then, yeah, when it happens, um, it's almost like you're not even participating because things are, you're just doing it yeah, and I get mad at some of these, these army movies, because they depict the, a lot of these movies.
Speaker 2:They depict the soldier as like, when contact happens or something happens, he's like sitting there, confused, doesn't know what to do. But they do a disservice because the American Army we train and you can attest to this Bill we do, we train so much to it's like it's coming out of your ears. You know I was telling my pastor that and you remember this about your weapon. I said I can take my weapon apart in 10 seconds and put it back together. I can probably put it back together blindfolded Because you remember how you had to. You learned that weapon and the pieces of that weapon to you could do it in your sleep, you know, without even thinking. Yeah, I think sometimes I did do that in your sleep. You know what I've been thinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think sometimes I did do that in my sleep, yeah yeah, exactly, and I remember being on the rifle range qualification day and I was so nervous and then all of a sudden I don't know if this ever happened to you, but the m16 kind of jams sometimes you get a little bit of sand in there or dirt, uh, and I was on the you know, during qualification and instinctively I was so proud of myself. I, you know, got the dirt out of it and pull the magazine out, cleared it, whatever, loaded it back up and I still was able to qualify.
Speaker 1:Yeah, again, it goes back to muscle memory and that that on a qualification range is great Cause you qualified, but in real life it's great because you, you didn't, you know, you got to go home well, that's where the drill, that's what we taught we, we, we train the way we fight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they say, train the way you fight. So it's not like you know it, if you're not going to train, you're going to fail, because when, when you need that muscle memory, it shows up, you know. But I'd, like I was just alluding to before, I hate these movies where they show these soldiers, you know, sitting back here, and that might have been true and I don't want to put my foot in my mouth. But because I know the World War II, world War I vets and Vietnam vets, you know, they may have had a similar experience. But, however, I just want to give kudos to our training. Our training is just so it's repetitive. It's so repetitive and for that reason, for that specific reason, you know, because you don't want to get in, I've been in a, in a, in a firefight before and you don't.
Speaker 2:That's not the time to sit back and go. What do I do? You know where? Where you know what flank, what do you mean? Left flank, what's a left flank? What's a right flank? You know, know what's. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? Perimeter? You know what.
Speaker 1:What do you mean, those questions are all solved, and you know, hopefully solved by the time you graduate basic training well, you know, one of the things we used to talk about during deployment was that um, those difficult times don't build character. Those difficult times actually reveal character, and so when you're in that situation, very quickly you know whether or not someone was paying attention during training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, that's a great way to put that too, because people don't understand, like in basic training, when we pick up and they say, oh, they show us yelling and screaming. And you know the days when you're training, you're covered in mud and the drill sergeant says you've got like 10 minutes to get upstairs, change out of uniform, get back down in this formation. And think about the first time you heard that you were saying like, oh my gosh, that's virtually impossible, that's impossible. You were saying like, oh my gosh, that's virtually impossible, that's impossible. But after having done it enough times, shoot, I can swap out of a uniform and boots and be done in five minutes and be so tall in formation with no problem.
Speaker 2:And but that's for that reason, because it's, it's when you understand it, it's a stress environment, it's by design, the environment is, it creates stress. For that reason. So when you do get in combat, which is a stress environment, you know exactly what to do. There's nothing, there's no thought to it to be able to, to execute. You know and that. And that's why people, you know I crack up laughing because my civilian friends were like friends, were like well, why does it have to be that? I'm like man, we don't have time to think. It's not like, hey, you're in a corporate situation, you're going. Oh well, I guess you got a chance to get some coffee. You can think about it. You can just go take a break in the break room, get some chips, come back, whatever. But our environment, it doesn't work that way, because anything can happen at any moment, any time.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's true, there's no break room over there, but right, absolutely, absolutely, yes, and I can.
Speaker 2:Now my wife cracks up laughing because she says I'm just on time, you know, you know, it just never leaves you. And she'll just say oh my gosh, you know, you just. You know, we got to go to airport. I'm, we're there to an hour and a half, two hours early. You know, she can't get her mind wrapped around there, she, her mind. We get there like 15 minutes before the plane leaves, you know yeah, well, you know I was listening.
Speaker 1:So I get up in the morning and I walk and I listen to joocko Willink's podcast and today he was actually talking about this. I know who he is. Yeah, so when they have military guys on the show, they're always there like half an hour, 15 minutes early. They're very polite. They get stuff done, he said. When they're not military man, it's just a crapshoot. They might show up early, they might show up five minutes late. You just never know. It's a mess. Yeah, it's a mess, it is so. So you uh, you uh, you make it through your deployment and, um, you redeploy back stateside. What was that like for you to come back after being gone for a year?
Speaker 2:that's interesting, uh, because I was uh sharing with a friend a while back. I said when I got back to the States when you're deployed, people don't understand. When you're deployed, they give you two weeks, they call it R&R and you have to take it. So I opted to, and a lot of guys. We got there. We landed on the ground in Baghdad in 2007, in January, and we were going to be there for a whole entire year and most guys took their R&R, like in February, march.
Speaker 2:I took mine later in the year, towards more September, november, for the reason is I hated the flight going over there. It was brutal to fly over there Because we flew in commercial airlines but there were private commercial airlines. I was sitting between these two and I'm a big guy, I'm 6263, 280 but uh, flying over there they put between these two big guys that were probably offensive tackles for the nfl or whatever, and I sat that way for 14 hours. It was just brutal. But anyway, I opted to go later on in the year and when I finally came home, there were some transitional things that happened to me. One of the things I noticed immediately was streetlights, because when I was over there and we did some night missions. They don't have streetlights like we have here in the States. You know. You know you go to any city or anything like that and they got street lights and you can walk pretty much. You know, not not somewhat in total darkness, but they, they had neighborhoods that had, you know, neighbors had streets, lights in their yard or in their yard, but not on the street, it was just in the dark all the time. And then we were being that, I was a gunner, I had night vision goggles so I was able to see in the dark, but it's always like in the dark. I hated going in the dark. This with water that, like a normal, your bottle of water that you buy is 7-Eleven or something like that. I look at it nowadays. That's where I brush my teeth, that's where I washed up, that's where I wash my face. You know, water is very valuable over there.
Speaker 2:Just coming back to the states, I remember just turning on the water in the kitchen and my wife said what are you doing? I said I'm just looking at it, just looking at the water. You know, because I was some homes, uh, being that I had a chance to go into the community. I it was a culture shock to me, because there were. I was in some homes that did not have running water at all, and then there were days where it was 120. And I'm like wondering how are these people? How do they survive out here in a desert climate? You know they can't like turn on the faucet and get water, drinking water, so they have this filter system that they collect rainwater and then they do all these other things and stuff just to survive. So that was kind of impacted me and then, uh, I had to.
Speaker 2:Another adjustment I had to make when I came back to the states is just, I had to kind of bring my situation awareness down. Uh, I did get diagnosed with, uh, post-traumatic stress disorder immediately when I came back, but I was still kind of sensitive to sounds and situations. To give you an idea, when I got back, I was driving I think me and my wife were coming back from dinner and I was driving on the road and I saw the blue lights go and there was a cop. He pulled me over and he says where are you going to? You kind of hitting it hard there and I said really he says yeah, we were just wondering you know what's going on and I told him and he noticed that I was a military guy and that I had served, and he and I said, well, I said yeah, that makes sense, because when we go out the gate we go from point A to point B, we don't cruise through Baghdad, we just kind of, you know, not speeding, but we go very expediently to our location, training location, you know, because it was you know, they told us when we got over there.
Speaker 2:When you go out the gate, you are being watched, people are watching you and I know as a gunner, there were times when I was up on the gun and I could clearly see when I we go out the gate, I saw cell phones come out. People were pulling cell phones out of their pocket and saying, yeah, this, this unit is coming down this way or whatever. So it kind of it brought a little bit of paranoia for me. But going back to the traffic cop, I explained that to him and I said yeah, and then he says I noticed you haven't had a traffic ticket in 30 years. I said really, I said what? But the guy gave me the ticket anyway. I said what the heck? I said I got a clean driving record. I said did you get to see? I'm just, you know, just acclimating back to American lifestyle.
Speaker 2:But then my wife noticed another thing when we would go out to dinner. She said she noticed that and I'm a little bit better at it, but I'm still catching myself doing it every once in a while. If I go to a restaurant I do not sit with my back to the door. So I'm always aware of situation awareness and I've even taught her. Like you know, in the United States when we had for a while we had those strings of shooters that were going in schools and restaurants and stuff, and I told my wife you know, I taught her about situation awareness.
Speaker 2:You know, when you go to a restaurant or you go to a mall, be aware of your we call them egress routes. You should know where your surroundings are. If something happens. This is you know. Know where your exits are, know what's going on Should somebody come walking down and wants to shoot up the place, know where to go, take cover and stuff like that. So that part Is it was an adjustment, just trying to adjust back to that, not just lowering my guard down.
Speaker 2:That took a while for that, you know I can't go because they're really, and any vet will tell you all the vets that have been in different wars and conflicts when you go and you're in a combat zone, I mean that's one of the the thing the enemy looks for, especially for america's soldiers. We're so casual with going out and just not, you know, because we walk around like, oh, I'm american, nobody's gonna message me, nobody's not gonna, they're not gonna dare mess with me. I'm from the United States of America, bull butter, it will happen, right, and they're waiting. And if you look at even the tragedies in our history, like 9-11 or Pearl Harbor, those are the times where they attack us, where our guard is down, but we not paying attention, you know, because we get so comfortable that we think that it's never going to happen. And I'm almost. I'm not a prophet, I'm not clairvoyant, so I'm not making a uh, a prediction. I just I'm. Even right now. These times make me a little bit nervous because we're we're distracted. That's only. Where that comes to mind is distractions, just too many distractions going on and stuff like that. When people can walk over here and I'm sure everybody can remember where they were at 9-11. Ten guys get on airlines and they killed 3,000 Americans that day. It's just ridiculous.
Speaker 2:I'm from New York and I'm doubly pissed off because any New Yorker will tell you I've seen the Empire State Building. Just ridiculous. And I'm from new york and and I'm doubly pissed off because I've I've uh, any new yorker will tell you I've seen the empire state building, I've seen the world trade center. But tourists come here and they go immediately to those places. New yorkers were like, hey, I'll go, I'll get to it. When I get to it, you know, and I'm at my buildings down. I haven't had. I've been past the world trade center thousands of times, just never had the time to go up there.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so you. So now you get home from your deployment and you start to reintegrate.
Speaker 2:And so, what do you? What are you doing?
Speaker 2:after deployment Well, I got back to my unit. I got assigned to be a first sergeant and I went to a first sergeant school and just kind of learned how to start. It changes for me, because now my leadership style is I stay. One thing they did nice to me. I was still in the drill sergeant corps. So this time I'm in charge of drill sergeants this time. So this time I'm in charge of drill sergeants this time. And I had a drill sergeant company know me about with the commander, first sergeant and then, like, probably 12 or 15 drill sergeants. That's a company. It's not very big.
Speaker 2:However, when the rally hit me, we were training. We were in basic training one time and we had to set up the range to get rid of due qualification that day. So I went down on the range and started helping the drill sergeants set up the range and one of my uh e7s turned to me. Nice guys, you know he did it in a respectful way, but he said hey. He said hey, first sergeant, we got this, we got this so they don't want your help, no more well, well it's, I gotta let them do their job.
Speaker 2:I mean you know that. I mean you're never going to see a first sergeant out there setting up the range and leading troops. Coach NCOs to be leaders, give them a chance to lead and do that kind of stuff. That's one of the things I got feedback from my drill sergeants. They really appreciate that because I allowed them to do their job and I know how hard and tough their job is. I promoted guys, got guys promoted. I had to. As a reservist drill sergeant. I had my mission, part of my mission for me, my commander. We had to go out and find other people, candidates to be drill sergeants. That was difficult as well. So because in the regular Army they get selected you know the men and women that are on active duty they get a letter that says hey, congratulations, you're going to drill sergeant school and a lot of them accept it with joy. Some don't. The reserve side of the house is we got to go find talent Right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes that can be hard to do. So how long were you a first sergeant at this unit, and then where did you go from there?
Speaker 2:I was a first sergeant for about probably about five years, five or six years and I really enjoyed it. I had a chance I worked at, then I worked at. I got promoted up to brigade level where I was the brigade S4. And those who don't understand, you know the army has, in any any battalion or company, you have the S one which is intelligence, s two is I'm sorry, s one is as administration, s two, I think, is intelligent, s three is operations and S four is logistics, so they work on the command team. So that was my job and making sure that the company logistics teams were doing what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 2:So it was okay. I mean, like I said, I was more of a leadership role because I did miss being out in the field. I loved it, but just going in there and then at. And then it changed for me because then I got command. You know, like I said I got I was working alongside a commander and I had this wonderful captain. Her and I were like man, we were, we were rocking man. We were just getting people in the in the reserve, uh, drill sergeant program. We were sitting there sending people to school, getting people promoted, and then we were clicking so well together that my wife called her my second wife, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Your work wife. Right, that was your work wife.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my work wife, she would call me, and I always told her and I had a wonderful lesson learning the difference. You probably heard the term NCO business. Yes, yes, yes, yes that, for those who don't know what that is that you know a lot of the you know problems we have with the Iraqis is they didn't understand the structure of like you have officers and NCOs. And one of the things they couldn't understand about NCOs, because their style is more of a Soviet style, where the officers do everything and and they don't have NCOs that will carry out their orders. But we had to sit down and explain to one Iraqi officer my captain did said, hey, this is what Sergeant Lewis does. He's, you know, I do the planning, I set this up and then he makes sure that all my plans and stuff get carried out and he manages that, that all my plans and stuff get carried out, and he manages that.
Speaker 2:And, um, and that was kind of cool to sit back here and be in that leadership role. Uh, to my, my captain, she would sit there and say, okay, do this. But I, I was, and it was nice making a promise to her. I said, ma'am, I have your back, my NCO core. We have your back. We support you because everybody knows that if you take care of your commander, he or she will take care of you.
Speaker 1:Right. I think one of the things I learned in the military was that, to a certain extent, my job was to help my leader look good and do the right things, and his job or her job was the same. You have to take care of people. It's not about bootlicking or butt kissing, but it's about making sure you're doing what you need to do to help them be successful, and that's part of your success.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's a saying that a speaker, simon Sinek it's one of my favorite readers of his books and he talks about it's not about being in charge, it's about taking care of people in your charge. And and one thing I love, I had an opportunity at one time I didn't do, but I had thought about going and getting a commission. But as time went on I just I love the nickname they have for the NCO Corps, the backbone of the Army. For some reason. That just resonated with me and I know when my son before he became a warrant officer, he became a non-commissioned officer first and I remember telling him now that you're at NCO I don't know it's not in your vocabulary it's not in your vocabulary because I've heard it said so many times. I've heard generals say it, I've heard colonels say it. They said they love the NCO Corps. He says you guys get things done. He says I don't know how you do it, but you guys come back and you get the job done and that's a nice compliment it is.
Speaker 1:You know, Most of the time I didn't want to know how it got done.
Speaker 2:Right right, right Right, because that is definitely NCO business.
Speaker 2:Right and sometimes, like I know officers, I crack up laughing because, like when I became a first sergeant, you know lieutenants or captains. Sometimes they just love NCO business. They just because they were just like, oh man, this is cool. And I can't tell you how many times I had to wave off some officers, like, sir ma'am, we got this, we'll take care of it, we'll report back to you, you know. But they just love NCO business.
Speaker 2:And I know when I say, hey, you're an officer, you're, you're at, but you're in that area, you have a responsibility to take care of us. You represent the company. So you know, you have our prayers and support and you're going places that that I can never be. But one thing people have to understand about officers and you're going places that I can never be. But one thing people have to understand about officers and I know you were a former officer people think officers just kind of make these snap judgments right off the top of their head.
Speaker 2:They really rely on the counsel of their NCOs and any officer would tell you that they. They take counsel from their, uh, from their, from the nco court. They sit back there and that and that. And then I would also learn that I, that was that my job. You know, when I would go and go to my colonel's office if I had to talk to him or her, I couldn't walk and say, ma'am, sir, this is a problem and walk out. No, sir, they would ask me okay, I will present a problem. Then I was expected to give some course of action, you know, and recommendations to help them make a decision, because at the end of the day with all due respect their name is on the paperwork, like their name is on the paperwork. So you know, we owe that to him, to them as as senior, as a senior leaders, to to our command team.
Speaker 1:Right, Any any good leader, whether it's military or not, we'll tell you that they have to listen to the people who are closest to the work. Right, I've got the overall big picture, but I need all those little pictures to help me figure out what it is, what course of action we're going to take. And so, yeah, I'm 100% with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw that work out when I was at that level of command because I always thought that, okay, these officers they're going to do what they want to do and they just you know whatever and they just you know whatever. But when I was involved in it and I go in the conference room, I'm in there with all NCOs and captains and lieutenants and everything and everybody's you know, given a presentation to the commander and I said, oh wow, this is pretty good, this is all well thought out, you know it's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll tell you that it's the good ones that will listen to their senior enlisted advisors. It's the ones that aren't so successful that don't. So you're kind of at that. Was it battalion or brigade level? And so how long were you doing that in the logistics section?
Speaker 2:Well, I was at brigade level and I came into a part where I was almost at about 32 years and I said, OK, I'm always looking, what can I do next, what's my next move? And I didn't want to retire yet. But then again, I just didn't want to just sit there, just stay where I was. So I remember calling a HR division and saying, okay, this is my career, what do I do next? Well, they just they recommended me that I was eligible for E9. And I said okay, and they slotted me. Believe it or not, I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. But they said, hey, we have an E9 position for you in Detroit, Michigan.
Speaker 1:Sounds about right. That sounds like the military.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm like, wait a second, you know I live in Charlotte, right. But then I have some of my friends that are officers and sergeant majors and stuff and they said, as you move up the ladder, a lot of people will take rank. I've seen that in the reserve side of the house. Sometimes people will take rank. They live in New York but they'll accept a position in Texas and they'll spend the money to fly back and forth just to hold that position so they can retire at that rank. This is more or less the thinking of the reserve soldier now, because active duty, you know, active duty is active duty. But the reserve side of the house is that they're going to give you promotions but it's not going to be like across the street or down the street from your house, it's going to, you know, be out there.
Speaker 2:So I called back and I said, hey, you know, do you have something else? So she I hear her typing away on a computer she says we have a position in Georgia with the third ID. Do you want it at brigade level? You'd be the brigade S3. I said, sure, it was only. Georgia from my house is only about maybe two, two hours, three hours. So I accepted position with the 88th Infantry Brigade in Fort Stewart as the S3, sergeant Major of the S3. And I was there for three years and I remember when I got the promotion I said, oh right, man, I got a star man right there on my chevrons right there, and my son, who just cracks me up. He says, dad, you know, when you go to Sergeant Major you're going to be bored. You think you're bored. Now You're going to be really bored. I said what are you talking?
Speaker 1:about.
Speaker 2:And I accepted the position and I'm working alongside a lieutenant colonel this time and my job I'm an advisor. You know, I'm sitting here. I gotta give him, I gotta be his eyes and ears on the ground of what's going on and go to his, with him in his meetings and handshaking. And you know things I saw as a private, you know, because when the sergeant major would come through or the command team would come through, I would just, like, you know, shake their hand. I would just be all excited.
Speaker 2:The sergeant major shook my hand and the colonel shook my hand and it's like, oh man, now it's, I'm on the other side of the fence, right, you know. And uh, I'm like, uh, okay, but I, and then I had to learn how to be what's the word I'm looking for? I had to be carry myself with the image of being presidential, I guess, of being a leader, you know, because I wanted to get out there and joke around with the troops. I still have that love anyway, right, I mean, we do PT. I'm out there running around with the troops and everything, and for a while I led a couple of pt sessions, but until, uh, one of my buddies he's a sergeant major he pulled me to the side. He said hey, sergeant major, you know the ncos, you know they have to do that. Uh, you, you know, I know you're having fun, but you're you don't see.
Speaker 2:Sergeant majors, lead pt well, now nco business doesn't apply to you anymore, that's painful business right now, so and I was like, oh okay, daddy, can't take a bath with the babies anymore. But I was at Fort Stewart for at least three or four years until I retired and I miss it. I still keep in contact with some of the folks down there and I know that the numbers are down in the military. But I told a friend the other day I said if they call me I would still still suit up. I I you know, if they told me I could stay another 10 years, I probably would have oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So so talk, talk to me about this, um, because I know it's different for everybody, but some of it's the same. You spent, you served for a long time and now it's time to walk out that door and you put that uniform on really for the last time unless you're going to go to like a military ball, but you've put that uniform on for the last time as a member of the of the military. What? What was it like walking out that door knowing this? Is it Like I'm done?
Speaker 2:Well, it's a um it it. I had to stay. I sat in the parking lot when I my last day and it just, I just had to pause for a moment and just you know, a spirit of gratitude just came over me. The stories that I've shared with you when I first came in the military I came in as a private and the people that I've met, the places that I've traveled to, the times that I was tested, the times that I had to grow schools, I went to people, I met missions that I went on to, and I come to one conclusion, bill, is that I have no regrets. I have nothing to.
Speaker 2:If I had the chance to go back and do something different, would I do it? Probably not. It'd probably be the same. It would change a little bit. But I had a good life, I had a good run, I had a really good run, and it took me by surprise. I just thought that I would always be in the military, forever. But I had to come to this. But you know, when I was in the military, I saw people retire in front of me all the time and I give them well wishes and and then move on, have a great life or whatever. But I thought that would never happen to me. I thought I would have be here forever, but things were changing.
Speaker 2:I could tell physically. I could tell that when I go for my physical my knees were being worn out. I know that, I knew that was coming. I have a right knee replacement. I knew that was coming, that. I saw that coming. But normally any anybody would tell you the military, you just kind of bite the bullet on that, suck it up and just kind of push through. But um, even my PT tests, you know it's the last year, my last year in the military I did the walking test for the first time ever. I would always do the running test, you know, and it was a prideful thing for me, but I realized I can't run like I used to run, you know. I mean, yeah, I had the gave me the option to do the walking test, but I I said, hey, you know it, that's.
Speaker 2:And we see that today, even today in civilian life, where you see these, these basketball players, or you see these athletes, or you see these athletes, or you see these musicians, they're trying to hang on to that little bit of glory. You know, and like even Michael Jordan, he's the GOAT. You know. Tom Brady, you know, like Michael Jordan, he's like in his late 50s. You know, if he played basketball, yeah, he can't score 50 points a night. He could probably score 20.
Speaker 2:But the one thing about every great person when it comes to the end of their run, you have to know when to take your curtain call and bow out and say thank you, because people respect what you do, they respect your career and everything. The worst thing is just seeing a champion struggle out there and doesn't know when to hang it up. That's kind of you don't really want to see that. You want to go out on a high note. That's what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to stay in the military, and if they're going on PT runs or they're going on ruck marches and stuff, because I didn't want to stay in the military, and and if they're going on PT runs that are going on ruck marches and stuff and I'm sitting there on crutches and can't do it, I that's and it's not how I want people to remember me. I want people to remember me. Hey, this son of a gun was. You know he was high speed and he was this and that he was an encourager he did this and that I don't want them to remember. You know me falling apart, you know, but just how I was able to successfully contribute, you know, that's what I want people to remember.
Speaker 1:I think that's you know. It just speaks to. You can go out on your terms, you can go out on somebody else's terms and it's always best, I think, to go out on on on your terms and to be able to recognize when it's time. So that's I mean, it's an incredible, like storied career that you've had. And I want to go back just a little bit. You know we talked through how you met your wife and you got married, but we didn't really. You mentioned your son a couple of times but we didn't really talk about your. So you just have one son or do you have a couple of kids?
Speaker 2:I have one son. I have a son and a daughter. Okay, and my son, uh, I always tell the story. He hates when I tell it, but he was my problem child. He, uh, his story I hope he hears this broadcast. But he was in high school, real smart kid. His story, I hope he hears this broadcast.
Speaker 2:But he was in high school, real smart kid. And just, he's one of these kids. You know, I get on him about studying. He never crack a book, but I think he's got his mother smart. I always give that kudos to my wife for his intelligence. But he was always, you know, good grades.
Speaker 2:But then his last two years in high school he got caught up with the crowd and just, you know, hanging out and just, you know, just doing the bare minimum. And he, as a matter of fact, he scored I think he scored 1500 on the SATs and but yet his grades were like crap. You know, he was just screwing around. And I remember when it came for graduation time he said you know, dad, you know, can I put in? You know I want to go to college. I said OK, and I felt bad for him because he put his letters in to the colleges. But the colleges were like saying wait a second, you got your SATs are like fifteen hundred, but your grades look like crap. So it's obviously. Obviously, if you compare it, you can tell this kid's probably just fooling around in school, not taking things serious. Obviously, if you compare it, you can tell this kid's probably just fooling around in school, not taking things serious. And I felt bad for him, you know, because the mail would come in from all the universities Thanks but no thanks. Thanks but no thanks. And there was the university, winston-salem University here in North Carolina, said they would take it. So I said OK. He came up to me. He said, Dad, you know I got accepted, they would take it. So I said okay. He came up to me and said, dad, you know I got accepted, they would take me. They're going to take me, can I go? And I said, okay, if you go, you can't be screwing around up there. You got to really buckle down because you're not with mommy and daddy anymore.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty every parent's giving that talk to their teenagers. They go to college. No-transcript. When your children go to school, they, you know, if you go up there, ask for their information. The schools won't give it to you because it's considered their personal information. They don't freely give that to their parents. But my son had a girlfriend, god bless her. She called back and she, you know, called me and my wife and said hey, your son Ryan, he's up here, he's partying, he's not going to class, and this and that and this and that. So I had to put the drill sergeant hat on again and I went up there, me and my wife.
Speaker 2:On a Saturday, we drove up to the storm and I said get in the car, you're done. So I emptied out his dorm and we brought him back home and, boy, I was so mad. He didn't even mean, he didn't even last the whole semester. I mean, I was so angry and frustrated. So by this time we bring him back home. So we here in charlotte we have, uh, we have a community college that's probably one of the best in the country. Uh, we have a wonderful community college. That's probably one of the best in the country. Uh, we have a wonderful community college. So he said can I go to community college? Okay, sure. So he commuted in community college and um was doing okay, and it kind of the history kind of fuses a little bit.
Speaker 2:When I got, uh, when I got called to bed, bad dad, when I was in training or when I was in Baghdad, my son got arrested while I was in Baghdad and he was out joyriding with these guys after work. And Bill, he had not one, not two, he had five counts charges against him. Oh geez, and I don't wish that on any parent whatsoever, because when I got the call, my wife called me. I literally got my knees buckled. I almost threw up because I've never been arrested, I've never been in the back of a police car. So she tells me, you know, he's in the county jail and I had to go get bail money. I don't even know how to do that. Never done that kind of thing before. I had to call my parents. So, long story short, we got him bailed out and I flew home and we went to the. I went and I remember all like it was day, like it was, you know, yesterday.
Speaker 2:They bring him in and, just like you see on tv, he has the orange jumpsuit on, he has the handcuffs on, he's shackled at his feet and he, they bring him in and, just like you see on TV, with the glass and the telephones and all that stuff, he sees his mother and he starts bawling. You know, and I'm in uniform by that time and you know I'm sitting in the back and my wife is talking to him and he's just I can see the fear on his face just just terrified. And let me stop right here. He was also in community college, but also my son. I got him to join the reserves. Okay, he was in the Army Reserve, so he's in the reserves as an enlisted and this thing happened to him.
Speaker 2:He was in the reserves while this happened to him. So he's talking to his mom and he's just like, oh, you know, then it was my turn and I came, I got the phone, I picked it up, I said, I said, hey, before you start, I'm going to ask you something, one question, because right now you're in hot water. Right now, I said I'm going to ask you one question as your father. Is there anything that I might have done or caused you to make these bad decisions? Because I want to take ownership too. I really want to take ownership of what's happening to you. And he was like no dad, no dad. Oh, oh, you know, no dad, I made the decision myself. I was hanging out with these guys and everything. I said okay, because I told him. I said next time you lie to me, I'm going to shut down and let you ride this pony all the way on the trail. I'm going to let you ride it all the way in.
Speaker 2:And to kind of speed the story up a little bit, bill, we got him bailed out. He was on probation for an entire year. I had to get ready to go back to Baghdad and before I left I went to his commander. His commander was a female captain and I made an appointment. And I went to his commander His commander was a female captain and I made an appointment and I went to her office and I said, ma'am, whatever you got to do, can you please sign the paperwork to allow my son to transfer from the reserves to active duty? And I explained to her what happened this and that. And I explained to her what happened this and that. And she I remember what her words to me plain as day she said well, I was a seven at the time. And she said you know, sergeant Lewis, I normally don't do this. I don't put bad soldiers in the active duty, because a lot of people know active duty soldiers I mean reserve soldiers can go to the active component. It's on the discretion of the commander to sign the paperwork. And uh, she said, I normally don't do this, but the fact that you came down and talked to me, I'm going to do this.
Speaker 2:And I tell you, bill, when she signed the paperwork and he went active duty, my son, I realized he he started to thrive because he was in an environment where he had structure. My son thrives in structure and he was like he started out. They sent him to fort hood, fort hood, and he was got with a unit down there and his mos, believe it or not, is military intelligence Military intelligence? And I'm saying, wait a second, you scored this and you get in trouble. And just one other thing it was so funny that he started doing well, he went from E2, e3, e4.
Speaker 2:When he made E5, at that time I told him, I said, son, they put out a policy, they had a shortage of warrant officers and they were taking E-5 promotables. So I'm sitting there telling my son, hey, you need to get jumping on this man. They're going to. You know. Hey, this is the time, because this is a window that's going to probably close. And I tell you, bill, he got sick and tired of me hearing my mouth complaining, you know, telling him to do this.
Speaker 2:And I was at the gym one night. He calls me, I got picked up. I got picked up, oh my goodness, and I said okay. And he says you don't seem too excited about it. I said, hey, I, I knew about your potential. Anyway, I was waiting on you and I had the wonderful opportunity to go down the Fort Rucker wonderful opportunity to go down the Fort Rucker, alabama, and pin his bars on. I was a Sergeant Major at that time and I remember putting his bars on. He's standing there in a position of attention. I gave him a Sergeant Major coin, gave him his first salute and I remember whispering in his ears and I said hey, wise, you outrank me. I said, but genetically I'll still bring you downtown, to Chinatown, sir. And he's going. Oh, no, no, dad, you don't have to say that. No, no, no. When you see Forrest Gump, he says Lieutenant Dan, through the whole movie and I said you've earned it. But I said now I want you to understand now that you're a leader people are going to look at you differently.
Speaker 2:There's more expectations are expected of you and it's kind of nice because now he's right now his current status. He's over in Vincenza, italy, right now, with the intelligence company over there. He's a CW3 now and he'll call me sometime and we talk talk shop. He's like dad. You know, I got this soldier. What's that? I said okay pull up a chair.
Speaker 2:You know I'll give you some wisdom on that, but I'm so proud of him I can spit, you know, and I got to. I wish I could show you. I got a picture on the wall of us in uniform together, you know, and he's, I'm just so proud of him. And my daughter, she's a, she's a married. Her husband she is a business owner. She had her own business for a hair salon that she ran for a little while. So everybody's doing something, you know, everybody's doing something. In my family, when they see me coming, everybody knows I'm going to ask like a drill sergeant. I don't ask who, what, when, where, why, you know, and they're like rats on a ship. They start jumping and running away from me and I'm just saying don't run from me.
Speaker 1:I want an accountability.
Speaker 2:That's right. So what year did you actually retire then? It's been pretty recent, right, yeah, most recent, uh, 2019.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, all right. So what have you been doing since you retired?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting and you're asking all these questions, but part of the reality. When you were asking me about when I had to take off the uniform, I had to do some soul search. I'm like Lord, what, what do I do with this? You know, I mean, I've got all this and you know this, you, you, you're, you're a vet, you know all this training and stuff they've given us. What can I do with this? I mean, you just can't take it and throw it in the trash. So I just got inspired to be a professional speaker, to go out and I've been giving audiences with I'll go to high schools, I'll go to colleges, schools, I'll go to colleges.
Speaker 2:Uh, I'm a personal of a professional speaker on the topic of leadership, but not just leadership, intention, intentional leadership, and I think that makes a difference, uh, compared to, as people say, what's the difference? I said, well, uh, I read to my military experience. You know, because you know, I believe military leaders are intentional. You know, we, we, we lead with a purpose and a plan and a defined plan on why we do things. And I try to bring that to the corporate world, faith-based organizations, nonprofit then let them know that you know some of the leadership techniques that I've used in the military that made me successful. This is how you do it.
Speaker 2:I created a program called L, e, a, d lead L is like leadership, direction, e is embrace, responsibility, a is accountability and D is dependability. So I teach on those, those four little modules right there, and how to build a successful leadership. You know, uh, for especially senior leaders, to invest in your, your secondary leaders. You know on how to leaders to invest in your, your secondary leaders. You know on how to get them. Everyone should be leading. You know you should teach leadership and I know I've had. I'm one of the few people I've had this experience of being in the corporate world as well as the military world to be able to tell the difference between the two.
Speaker 1:Right, Right. So it sounds like you're you that next big phase coming up, so we'll have to check back in with you to see where you're at. As with any veteran, the story's not over until the story's completely over and your family and the success that your family has had which part of that is attributable to your leadership within your family, just like your leadership within your units and how that made those folks successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was able to author a book called Broken Things. It's out there on Amazon, broken Things. And what I did? I took the stories that I've shared with you on this broadcast. I took three personal stories where there were moments where there was a catastrophic moments when things happened and my Christian faith was was enough to carry me over to get through this brokenness. You know, one of them is my daughter had a rare form of epilepsy. We had to deal with that. The second story is one of them is going to Iraq to deal with that. And then I think the third story is about my son.
Speaker 2:I just shared with you about my son going right there but just taking how these broken things, if you look at them with the right perspective, god gives us the ability. God allows those things for us to develop into, to have courage, to have character, to have these things, because I know I'm not saying that God allows bad things to happen to us, but it's the story of the prodigal son. It was just one of my favorite stories in the Bible the prodigal son. People don't understand it's not so much about the son going to do his thing, but if you look at the story, it's the father. He allowed him to go, knowing that those circumstances or consequences were awaiting him. You know that he would be going through that. And then the beautiful thing about that story is that when the son comes home, the father was always out there looking and waiting for him to come home and the son learned a valuable lesson of life. So I write about that in the book and broken things and how it's made me a better person, you know, made me a better understand, made my faith grow big time and I wrote, uh, most of that book.
Speaker 2:Uh, I had a laptop that I carried in my bag, uh, in the humvee. I wrote most of it in iraq because it started out being just something therapeutic and I said I just do something just to keep my mind off, uh, off the danger or whatever like that. But I've handed, I've given more copies away than I've sold anyway, because I mean, people are going through stuff. A lot of my vet friends are going through things. And I want to also say to the listeners my website out there, speaksergeantroycom it's all one word, speaksergeantroycom. I have a link out there called my Iraqi Journalqi journal journal which, uh, it's the actual journal that I wrote when I was in iraq. It goes on a day by day, month by month, on when I was over there. And they can it's for free, they can go out there and click on it and read it.
Speaker 1:It's pretty interesting well probably a lot of uh lessons from that as well.
Speaker 2:Um, I would imagine yeah, it's just really interesting. I had one of my team members. He called me a couple of years back and he said this he was in therapy and he said his therapist, they were using the journal to help him with that. And I said, wow, man. And then I kind of gave him a dig, because when I was writing journaling every day they were picking on me, my team members, like, oh, Lewis, you're on the computer again, what are you doing? You know whatever? And I said, okay, whatever, I said it just helps me. Yeah, but it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I think there's a lot more, a lot more to come. But as we wrap up our conversation today, um, I ask everyone that I uh, that comes on, that comes on the same question and you know, a hundred years from now, someone's going to be listening to this. I hope and hope, maybe even sooner. But when they listen to this story and they listen to our conversation, what would you like them to take away from it?
Speaker 2:I would like for people to understand, and I get so mad because this world is right now, especially right now. I know we're in an election year, but really overall, it's so many distractions, uh, that are going on in this world. People are just so distracted and and so pulled in so many different directions and I just encourage people to learn from my. Just what I'm saying is to be able to step back and look at yourself, look inside yourself. There are wonderful things that everybody possess. You know your. Your job is not to be a Xerox copy of whoever you think is perfect. That's totally irrelevant.
Speaker 2:And I revert back to when I was a drill instructor. I trained thousands and thousands of soldiers and I would never one time did I ever say be like so-and-so or be like this person. I would always put my finger in their chest and say who are you? What? Look at your capabilities. You do something well.
Speaker 2:It's no accident that you're here. You are not a mistake. You are here. You are here to function and you have a purpose and you got to find out what that is. And once you find out what that is, then it's, you know, balls to the wall, you go, you go, you take off and what I'm going to make mistakes.
Speaker 2:You're supposed to make mistakes. Mistakes are learning lessons. Well, I don't know what's going on. You don't need to know what's going on Because if you keep looking in the rearview mirror, if the distance is always changing, that means you're moving forward. If you look in the rearview mirror, so you've got to continue.
Speaker 2:And sometimes you know, don't worry about your friends, because sometimes you're in a circle of friends that can't keep up with you. So stop trying to drag. You know, and I was guilty of that. I'm thinking so. Maybe I'm talking to myself because I was guilty of that. I was always dragging my friends with me because I didn't want to be by myself. Sometimes you have to be by yourself, you know.
Speaker 2:And and I remember going in like I told you earlier in that story my best friend. We were supposed to go to basic with me. He holds me the night before and I remember my knees shaking and sweating, thought I. I remember I was so angry at him because he left me, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. And sometimes you're going to be afraid. It's okay to be afraid. It's okay. So I want people to walk away with a sense of that. I challenge you to find out who you are. I challenge you to define your talents. Who you are, what's the one thing that makes you get up in the morning, that you get excited, what's one thing you got to figure that out.
Speaker 2:I can't answer that for you, but I can also. I could just give you to encourage you to seek that, because you're resilient. Resilience, you man. You know I call people. It's my toenail theory, you know. You know they can clip you, but you'll grow back wow, that's profound, that's it man, only harder, with more luster, you know.
Speaker 2:But you know, the thing is that we're so celebrity oriented and we're I heard a wonderful phase one time. Comparison is the killer of joy. You know it's the killer of joy. You have to stop comparing yourself to other people and just go out there and make it what we say in the military make it do what it do.
Speaker 1:This is it's been amazing. It's been great getting to know you, Um. Thanks for coming on, and I look forward to continuing our conversations outside of this.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, bill. Thank you for inviting me. It's, it's been a uh nice to kind of go back, uh, and just, you know, because I feel good about it. You know, sitting back here, you know the ups and downs and of life and just, uh, being part of your organization. You know, I got on your website and listened to some of the stories in there. Some of them are just like mine, you know.
Speaker 2:So now I don't feel sorry for myself. I'm saying wait, no, she though he went through that, okay, and it's just um, it's wonderful, and that's one of the things about like we talked about earlier being a vet. You know we all have that rite of passage. We all went through together and I I applaud you on what you're doing because this is one of the things that's just so helpful, uh, for vets. You know, drawing us back into one another, and I think that's a honorable goal goal. You know, before we were coming so isolated, but now you know organizations like this are drawing us back into one another. We don't have to be in uniform, we still have that connection. So I applaud you and your organization on what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, and you know as well as listening to these stories, anyone that picks up your book, I'm sure, can find things that they relate to as well, so we're definitely going to. That's on my reading list, so I'll be out there checking out broken things by Roy Lewis.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right.
