Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
In a world where storytelling has been our link to the past since the days of cave drawings, there exists a timeless tradition. It's the art of passing down knowledge, and for Military Veterans, it's a crucial piece of their legacy. Join us on the Veterans Archives Podcast, where we dive deep into the heartwarming and awe-inspiring stories of those who served, no matter when or where.
Here, Veterans get the chance to be the authors of their own narratives. Through guided interviews in a relaxed and safe environment, they paint their experiences with their own words and unique voices. The result? A memory card in a presentation box, a precious gift they can share however they please.
But that's not all. These stories find a secure home in our archive, a treasure chest of experiences for future generations to explore. The best part? It's all a gift to the Veteran – our way of saying thank you for their service.
Tune in to the Veterans Archives Podcast, where history, heroism, and heartwarming tales come to life.
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Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
The Remarkable Military Odyssey of Terry Brown: From Flint Childhood to Naval Legacy
Terry Brown's compelling journey through the military is nothing short of inspiring. From growing up in Flint, Michigan, to serving in the United States Navy, the Army National Guard, and the Naval Reserve, Terry shares the experiences that shaped him into the dedicated servicemember he is today. His heartfelt reflections on childhood struggles, the influence of his Marine stepfather, and the tragic loss of a friend on the USS Stark reveal the profound motivations behind his sense of duty. Listeners will gain a deep appreciation for the emotional and physical challenges Terry faced, making his story a powerful testament to resilience and commitment.
Navigating military life while starting a family brings its own unique set of trials and victories, which Terry candidly discusses. From the delayed notification of his son's birth to their modest beginnings in a tiny Virginia Beach apartment, Terry's anecdotes illustrate the balancing act of duty and parenthood. Hear about his heartwarming reunion with his son at graduation, the brotherhood that helped him secure housing, and the relentless camaraderie that made these tough times bearable. His tales from the USS Forrestal, including the perils of the flight deck and the unforgettable rogue wave incident, paint a vivid picture of military life at sea.
Terry's diverse career transitions highlight his adaptability and dedication, from aviation training to varied duty stations, and from Delphi to the Michigan Army National Guard. His experiences with international collaborations and the rewarding moments of rejoining the Navy Reserve offer rich insights into the sacrifices and growth that come with such a path. Reflecting on his post-military life, Terry emphasizes the importance of the veteran brotherhood and the support systems that continue to be a lifeline. This episode is a tribute to the enduring bonds formed through service, underscoring the need to share and honor these remarkable stories.
Today is Wednesday, september 4th, 2024, and we are talking with Terry Brown, who served in the United States Navy, the Army National Guard and the Naval Reserve. So, terry, we're going to start out real simple here Tell us when and where you were born.
Speaker 2:I was born out of Flint Michigan, in 1968. I was born and raised in Linden, michigan's, where I graduated from all right.
Speaker 1:What was it like growing up, terry brown? Did you have brothers and sisters?
Speaker 2:oh, I had heard of them a lot of half brothers, sisters. Um, it was a lot older. I was the youngest, I was the baby out of all of them, so I got spoiled a little bit yeah, so that's a true thing.
Speaker 1:Then, yes, yes. Did they say things today like, oh, you got this thing that I wanted and I never got?
Speaker 2:well, it was when they came over on the weekends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, that exactly happened all right, so um did you live with mom and dad, mom and step dad? How did that?
Speaker 2:work. I lived with my mother and father until they divorced, when I was about eight years old, and then we moved out to linden, uh-huh um, and pretty much stayed there. My stepfather passed away when I was at the age of 12, but then my mother married a jarhead, okay. So he talked me out of joining the marines, right, so he wanted me to have an education. So he talked me out of joining the Marines Right, so he wanted me to have an education and he geared me towards the Navy.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, and so just what are some of the memories you have of your mom Like? If you think about your mother today, is there a memory that's like a favorite memory or something that you like to remember?
Speaker 2:My mother was a hard worker. She was a very hard worker and she supported it in everything that I did. I played sports through high school basketball, football and my stepdad was there at every football game. My dad, he worked a lot. He was at GM, so they were always making him work. But my mother's cooking she would cook for an army.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. So what was some of your favorite food that your mom cooked?
Speaker 2:Oh, her lasagna, lasagna and chili. She was good, it was good, it was, oh my gosh. And still, to this day, she still makes for an army.
Speaker 1:I think it's a mom thing? Yes, right, and it doesn't matter how big you get, you're always too small. Yep, yep, I know how that goes. Um, so just a quick question. So I grew up in a family where my stepfather was a marine as well. Uh, he served in korea and, um, I grew up learning how to make hospital corners on my bed. Did you have a similar experience?
Speaker 2:no, no, um he. He was a 10-year jarhead and then he retired. Out of what was he the engineer out there in Flint? He was a character. He always had a joke. He finally, after retired, got his calling job as a greeter at Walmart.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And that's where he should have been his whole life. He just silliest guy, but the nicest person in the world, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep, so you were saying that your mom and your stepdad supported you kind of through school, playing football and that sort of thing. What was it like going to school for you? What are some of your memories from that time?
Speaker 2:Oh boy, some of those I probably shouldn't say here. I wasn't the best student at all. I was there to go have fun. I did enough to make it by to be able to play sports. So I struggled a little bit through school, but I was decent at basketball. I was decent at football. I knew that's what I wanted to do so I'd get my grades good for there. At that time through high school I met one of my best friends, which was Rob Quick, and I didn't really meet his brother much, but he was killed on the Stark back in 87.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:At that point, I was just getting ready to go into the Navy, and at that point, that's where I made a commitment that I would never forget all of them, in fact, I've got a nice-sized tattoo on my back shoulder. It's dedicated to the USS Stark and committed to never forget.
Speaker 1:And so, for anyone who might be listening, it's not familiar with the USS Stark. That is the uh. That was a destroyer that was hit by an Iraqi missile uh, supposedly accidentally, but we lost quite a few, uh, good people in that incident.
Speaker 2:Yep, there was a 36 people that died out there and I believe there was three of them from Michigan and there was Kelly quick, right from Swartz Creek.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a hard time. I was actually, uh, I was in the Navy at that time, so, uh, it actually shaped my Naval career. Uh, when that happened, uh, remember it very, very well. We got a lot of good training as a result of that unfortunate incident.
Speaker 2:Yes, yep. Um, I know the family has fought hard and struggled and they they finally went and made the reunion and made port florida, which was a big uh closure for them. That really helped my friend rob and how did that?
Speaker 1:how did that impact you? Uh, you're going into the navy as this is all happening. What sort of impact did that have on you?
Speaker 2:You know it was you wanted payback. But you know, when you get in after a few years you realize you're not doing what you really wanted to do. As an impact, you got a job, you work hard and you hope somehow you made an impact back there. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know, I think people, kind of people who, who may not be in the military, lose the perspective of you know, when you look at folks who go directly into combat, there's a whole bunch of people behind the scenes that you don't see, that make all of that happen, and so we may not make the impact that we want to make, but we certainly make an impact in helping those folks that are out there on the front line.
Speaker 2:Yes, yep, yep, a lot of the escorting of troops and transportation. Definitely, as we Navy guys are, we're Uber drivers for the Marines.
Speaker 1:There you go and they will remind you of that all the time. Yes, they will.
Speaker 2:I think there's also something about their the department of the navy, the men's department, I think I've heard that a few times.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, but so you're. So you're in high school and you, you decide to join the um, the navy. What? What kind of pushed you towards the navy? Uh, I know your stepdad had some influence on that, but why the military at all?
Speaker 2:Well, back in 87, their economy was not that great and I just was not wanting to work in a shop and, as I said, I just did not have the best education, I didn't have the best study habits and, just being as a kid, I was always fascinated with the service and I was going to do the Marines, but my stepdad told me he was not going to do it. You need a better education. And that's what he pushed me towards.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I ended up back in 86, november of 86, right day after Thanksgiving, I went down to the MEP station to go sign up and I went through all my physical. Everything got done. The guy asked me if I could leave next week. I asked him if he could give me my diploma first, right? So he's like you haven't graduated. I said no, I have not yet. They were ready. They were ready for you.
Speaker 1:Did you go to MEPs in Detroit or MEPs in Lansing, detroit? Okay, yeah, I don't think Meps in Lansing was there in the 80s, was it? I don't think so. Did you stay at the Mariner Inn? Yep, yep, yeah, it's a rehab clinic. Now I hear Imagine that. Yeah, what a surprise, huh. So you sign up? I'm assuming you graduate high school. Yes, I did your diploma yes, you head out to the Mariner. When did you actually leave for basic training?
Speaker 2:I left July 26 of 87, right after graduating high school. They wanted me to go a little bit sooner, but I decided to hold off until just after my mother's birthday, okay, so I could spend that with her. And then, yep, it was head to boot camp for and wonderful training through that. After I got through done with my training, I stuck around there in great lakes as a uh, they call it an atd. We always called it another 30 days of schooling, which is a basic theory of aviation, fundamental skills. It was a quick, easy 30-day school. Along with that, graduated in 87, joined the Navy in 87. My son was born in 87, and I got married in 87. So it was a pretty big year for me.
Speaker 1:So let's back up a little bit. There's some things that maybe they should have gotten you out of there sooner, I don't know. So there's some things that happened in there. So was this a high school girlfriend, school sweetheart?
Speaker 2:yeah, yes, okay.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was a huge year for me, it sounds like there's a lot of change in a very short period of time. Uh, grow up fast, yeah, yeah, you do so, you get to. I want to back up just a little bit too. So you get to basic training. Um, I like to ask this question because the experience is different for different people. What was it like stepping off the I'm assuming the bus or the train and you get to basic training? What was that initial?
Speaker 2:It wasn't. I didn't think it was bad. My dad was a jarhead, my stepfather. He gave me a big heads up and he said it's not going to be as bad as he was. It was tough. My girlfriend at the time was pregnant. I knew that my son was going to be born when I was in boot camp. That was tough, but all I had to do was follow the rules. I'm good at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think a lot of people get lost in that. If you follow the rules, yeah, it's going to suck, but it's going to suck a lot less. Yes, yes, right, so you've got this added. This child is going to be born at any time while you're in basic training. Did you find it hard to keep your head in the game?
Speaker 2:No I didn't to keep your head in the game? No, I didn't, because I looked at the big goal at the end. I knew that I would have a job, I'd have a career, I was going to get paid and we would be able to start our life together. I focused with that. The one thing that was really odd was that Red Cross never reached out to me until the day before my birthday, and he was actually born four days before that.
Speaker 1:Oh, so it took a little time to get the message. Oh yeah, yeah. So did you get to call home? How did all that work? Because I didn't experience that. So how did you do that?
Speaker 2:I laugh about that because I went back, got the letter, my company commander, and that lined me up in front of everybody and he basically started talking to everybody. He was asking should he go and be able to go make the phone call? And I'm not that dumb, they're going to let me go eventually. So they talked with everybody and they kind of said, well, let's put it to a vote. Everybody voted that I could make the phone call. I remember just before I graduated, everybody had pitched in and bought my son a little Navy outfit and that so that was still sticks in my mind. Yeah, so when you graduated, was your girlfriend there with the baby? Yes, the first time I ever seen my son was at the graduation. Wow, so that was something. Yeah, was he in his little Navy?
Speaker 1:suit.
Speaker 2:No, no, he wasn't, but that was one of the happiest days, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, how did that feel to lay eyes on your son for the first time Amazing, amazing and hurtful that I wasn't there for it, right, right. But again, you were doing the right things for your family. Yes, you know going forward.
Speaker 2:So I, I know, uh, any military person out there knows that sacrifice, yes, yep it's um, you know, maybe next time try to figure the time frame out a little bit better.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm guessing you weren't figuring time frames on this one Dude.
Speaker 2:Nope, Not at all. Young, dumb and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know what the rest of that is too. So you graduate basic training, you do your ATD, and then where do you go from there?
Speaker 2:Once I got done and we got married back in november of 87, um had a couple days leave, you know, first time in the navy, and that you don't have much for money, so we didn't really do much of a you know vacation or anything at all. It was just being able to see family, which was good. I left like uh, november friday, the 13th of 87. I remember that that's when I checked into nas oceana down virginia beach to check into my command vf11, which was f14s at the time okay, all right, I spent a lot of time, uh, outside of oceana watching them do touch and goes at night.
Speaker 1:okay, because you can see that blue flame coming off the planes. I was at Dam Neck right around the same time that you were down there, so I'm surprised we didn't bump into each other. It's a possibility. So what was it like checking in, and you know what did you do from there?
Speaker 2:When I got there there wasn't much going on because the command was already out on a debt. So they just kind of worked things, kind of helped clean up the ready room and stuff, just kind of tried to keep me busy. I just remember the funny senior chief in there. He used to say hey, you're dumb, you're young, go have fun. I said, well, my wife's back in Michigan. He's like, well, you need to get her down here. So I needed time, I needed a ride. They helped me out, they got me around where I need to go so I could go look at apartments find a place.
Speaker 1:So did you find that quite a bit in your career? At least I found this that people are really willing to help other people out. Oh, yes, it's like a. You know we talk about the camaraderie and the bond and all of that stuff, but it's real.
Speaker 2:It is, it is, it's. You know it's you and I. We could sit here and mess with each other someplace in a bar or whatever. Then if a civilian starts talking bad about us, that's when we're going to step up and stop them. But another army guy comes in, we're going to sit, tell him to sit down and mess with us.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, you can. Uh, I can pick on my brother all day long, but you can't. Yep, that's how that works yes yes, yeah, so. So, uh, what was it like getting your wife finally down there, and where'd you end up living?
Speaker 2:oh my gosh, that was a tiny, tiny little apartment. It was, uh, it was something waterbed 13 inch black and white tv and a bean bag and some pots and pans.
Speaker 1:That was about it what the hell was it with water beds in the 80s? Because I had one too. You talk to anybody in the 80s that served. They had a freaking water button. I don't get it.
Speaker 2:Yes, they did because they're not comfortable. Nope, nope, especially when the heater goes out I was just gonna say that yep, that was what we had in a baby crib. That was it. That was uh, things that I would never change never.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it would be a stupid question for me to say wasn't that like the best time of your life?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, oh yeah, when you didn't have anything, didn't have two nickels to rub together and that it was. You know, let's go just walk down to the boardwalk in Virginia. Yeah, it was something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you get your family down there. That's got to kind of help ease your transition into your new unit.
Speaker 2:Yes, I ended up having to work my 30 days TAD temporary assignment duty down there. Worked at cleaning up the barracks. Got to learn some of the guys, uh, which was good, um, but yeah always cleaning up after their drunken weekends was always something well.
Speaker 1:So I was. I was a fleet sailor. I served on a destroyer. What was it like in the aviation world? Did they party hardy, harder?
Speaker 2:yes, they did they, did they. The barracks was oh my gosh, it's yeah. I was just glad that I never lived in the barracks yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 1:I could see that. So when did everyone get back they?
Speaker 2:got back probably about a good three weeks later and, uh, another, you know 30 days I actually I guess it was 90 days I did my tad. I got back to the command and they wanted to know where did you want to go? And I, just going in, I went in undesignated and I decided that I wanted to strike for an ae Aviation Electrician's Mate. And I got extremely lucky at that point because they were short in hand so I didn't have to go work as a line rat, as they like to call it, that carries the change and, you know trucks, does some inspections on the aircraft. They work pretty hard and I'm glad I didn't have to do that. But I went into the AE shop and I am the kind of guy that is hands-on. Turning wrenches is the way I learned. Reading books is not my thing. We finally ended up with our first deployment back in uh, it would have been in 89 with the forest stall, uss forest stall. Um yeah, first deployment 108 days before I seen land again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, talk to me about that first deployment. I mean other than the lovely ocean cruise that you went on.
Speaker 2:I got to meet a couple of guys that you know out of the shop. They uh took me under the wing, uh were teaching me a lot, so they had been on a couple deployments, so they're giving me fair warning on everything. Um, you get to the ship, there's 5 000 people on this thing and, uh, that's not so bad. It's pretty empty. You finally pull out to see you're bringing all the aircrafts on and this is when you're working on the flight deck with everything spinning around. That's a wake-up call and it's dangerous, but it is exciting. It's uh, it's amazing. Um, but you got to keep your head on a swivel.
Speaker 1:Anything, anything like stick in your mind that happened during that time.
Speaker 2:The one thing that sticks in my mind on that deployment was we were about ready after the six months almost ready to pull into port and Mayport, the six months almost ready to pull into port in Mayport. And I remember walking in the hangar bay and I looked over my shoulder looking out the hangar bay doors, out the elevator, and I just seen this big swell coming and I'm like ah shit. So I turned in. This big gush of water comes in. I turned and this big gush of water comes in. I got soaking wet, lifted the elevator up about three feet and they ended up losing a Marine off that yeah, and they never did find him. He was about two weeks out of his deployment to ready to be home.
Speaker 1:And that might be the biggest thing that really sticks in my mind, and that's. That's hard. Yeah, it's really hard in. You know, for anyone who has not seen an aircraft carrier, that's no small, no, oh, that thing is huge. And for a wave, a rogue wave, to be able to do that, that's something.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you can fit three aircrafts on this thing. Lift it up, and for that thing to get pushed up was unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 1:Do you ever think about how fortunate you were not to be swept over? Because I mean easily from your vantage point that could have been you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think about that. You know, even up working up on the flight deck, you're carrying one of the boxes. You got to get to another aircraft. You're looking around, you think you gotta, you're ready to make it across the flight deck and those yellow shirts turn it on you and feel that heat a little warm. Grab a hold of a pad eye I've done that a couple of times so you don't go sliding down the flight deck. But that's the job and it was. It was exciting that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Exciting and terrifying all at the same time.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah and while you're trying to learn so you know I I gotta ask.
Speaker 1:You know, though, you can't just pull a carrier into any port, so when you were on your deployment, did you go to any ports? Did you see anything interesting?
Speaker 2:well, my, my, my first deployment there. We uh we hit uh three ports and uh, we hit naples, spain, or naples, italy, and that is a lot like pulling in detroit, it's about what that's like. And then we went to benidorm, spain, portsmouth, england, that six month deployment. We had 15 days of leave. That was it, and you figure, one of those days you got duty, so you're only off two days out of those. We ended up having two beer days out there. That was interesting. No flight ops do a cookout on the grill and hot, warm beer.
Speaker 1:So let's talk a little bit about this. Maybe everybody listening doesn't understand that once you've been out for a certain number of days, you can have a can of beer. Right, Correct?
Speaker 2:It's not really good beer, but it's beer. It's very hot beer. They do not have it in the fridge or on ice and technically you weren't supposed to be selling it. But uh, yeah, I know people were selling them for 10 bucks a beer yeah, yeah, and in you know, beer is beer, right.
Speaker 1:So even warm or hot beer after you've been out for a while, still good, yes yes, yep, it was.
Speaker 2:Uh, it was interesting. Wasn't expecting anything like that on the first deployment. It was amazing. But the 108 days before touching land again, that was a little different.
Speaker 1:That's a long time, yes, so how did it feel to get back?
Speaker 2:You know they sit there and talk about the sea legs. That didn't happen. But just to be able to sit in a car and ride in a car was weird. That was different. Kind of funny. I laughed about it. It was like it, just it was different. Six months of not riding in a vehicle, believe it or not, that's weird.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a big adjustment, coming back and kind of being in charge of yourself again, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know, I learned that I wasn't the one in charge. I was trying to say it politely, but the wives always take over a lot when you're gone. It's the bills, it's the sick kids. They do a lot and a lot of people don't see that.
Speaker 1:Right, well, and the thing too, too, is we're talking about the 80s, so there was no cell phone. You know, if something happened you didn't know, you might not even know about it till you get back, that's that's true there.
Speaker 2:You know the letters would take two and a half, three months to even get a letter, to find out what's going on. You pull into port and especially for being out 108 days, there's a lot you miss. As soon as you pull into port you turn around and try to get on that phone, stand in line for an hour and a half and catch up to see what's good and what's going on and what you missed. And then of course you call the wife, then you've got to call the mother and you've got to call the father. So you're on the phone for a while before you are able to go get a nice meal and a nice cold beer.
Speaker 1:Right, well, and it's not cheap either, those phone cards. You could run up a bill if you were careful.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yep, but it's got to be different now.
Speaker 1:I just I'm really curious it's got to be different now. I just I'm really curious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too, I'm not curious enough to go on another six month cruise, but no, no, I'll find somebody to talk to about it exactly.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, exactly so. So you, uh, you do this, you do your cruise, you come back. What, what, what happens next?
Speaker 2:once you get back on off the deployment, it's a regular job, unless you work second shift, like I did. Then we just called it stay check because you would come in at 3 o'clock in the afternoon and you'd be there until 6 in the morning at times. You still had a lot of workups, made debts out to Fallon, nevada, luke Air Force Base, arizona. You know, a few months at a time, luke Air Force based in Arizona. You know, a few months at a time. Go back to the boat, do another workup in the Caribbean, which we were there for about a month and pulled into St Thomas Virgin Islands and I sat down and thought about that. One time was my first three years of my marriage. I was gone over a year and a half easily. Um, you know, schooling debts, it's, it's rough, it's rough.
Speaker 1:Well, and how did that? How did that impact your relationship?
Speaker 2:And it did not impact it. She did go home during the first deployment. It was her first time being away from family and I could not blame her one bit. So here we're paying for an apartment that nobody's staying at, but I couldn't blame her one bit. Not knowing anybody, we weren't down there very long After the second deployment. Being home for a year before we deployed again. We were able to meet people. Uh, she found a job and that helped out a lot yeah, yeah, I think, uh, it's.
Speaker 1:it's important to for our spouses to get out of the house and be around other adults, especially when we're gone so much. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Yep, and, like I said, after about a year we went out again, deployed in April of 88, went to the med and the forest all again and you probably know the forest all as they call it, the fire stall, Yep.
Speaker 1:I've heard it called the USS Forest Fire and other things.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:I have seen the video, though.
Speaker 2:Yep, it was horrific that big old hole that was on the flight deck. That was our berthing. That's right where our berthing was number four wire. So big plaque down on the hangar bay door you see everybody from the command that had passed it just kind of haunts you a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of brings you a little dose of reality.
Speaker 2:Yes, it does.
Speaker 1:That is, I don't know as much fun as you are having, because I had a great time in the military or in the Navy, but there are those things that happened for the people that paved the way, and that was an older carrier right?
Speaker 2:Yes, it was. That wasn't the latest and greatest. No, no, that was an old carrier with a bent screw.
Speaker 1:So when they kicked it up, that whole ship shook. Yeah, rock me right to sleep. Were there any? So you know that there's a lot of differences between the old fleet and the new fleet, because you were probably around that still in around the time that, like the, the uh, the newer, uh carriers were coming out. What are some of the things other than the bent screw? What are some of the things about that older ship that you remember?
Speaker 2:I don't know about what I remember about it. The one thing that I do remember is the size compared to the Washington and Lincoln that I had went out to certified the cats and stuff with those. I was just amazed. I thought the forest all was big, but once I got on that Washington and Lincoln I was just dumbfounded how big that really was. Quite different it was, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you gain perspective when you're walking down the pier and it's a foggy, early morning and here's this number that's like the size of a building, all lit up. Yep, yeah, and then. Then you get the picture.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes yep, yeah, when we uh got ready to deploy back in, uh, what was that? It was 89 for the deployment it. It got delayed again the forestall because it caught on fire. So we were delayed about three weeks on air. So we were all ready, all set, everything was packed up, got ready to go and we had to start unpacking stuff because we were going to keep practicing flight ops going on. So we had to start unpacking some of the boxes. So I'd say about two months before that deployment, that's when I found out my wife was pregnant for our second child.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're probably going to be gone for the birth of another child.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean was that going through your head? Yep, it was, it was. Worst part was, after being gone for four months, she had a miscarriage. We lost the baby.
Speaker 1:And how long between that happening and you actually finding out.
Speaker 2:That one was a little faster than finding out about my son being born. Right out that one was a little faster than finding out about my son being born, right. Um, the hard part was we were out at sea and was able to use the ship's phone and trying to talk to her. It was after you got done with your sentence over. You sit there, you listen, it's a delay, you wait and you hear over and you can finally say something, and I couldn't tell you any of the conversation except the over. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's a. It seems like that stuff happens whenever you're not home. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, and of course she's down there by herself, so that makes things rougher for me while I'm out. So they they kind of held me up from going on the flight deck for a while, and I cannot blame them one bit.
Speaker 1:They're pretty smart about that kind of thing. Yes, actually this I think that once you've been in for a while, you see these things happen frequently and yeah, all you want to do is be there to help your, your wife yes, you can't do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no ship you home for a while or anything it's. It's, you're there for the rest of deployment. They sent me off, uh, probably at least two weeks before the deployment ended. So getting shot off the cat on a cod, that was pretty interesting. That's like riding a awesome roller coaster.
Speaker 1:So so you did get to go home a little bit early. Then a couple weeks early, yes, yes, yep. I'm sure she appreciated that. Yes, yep, yep, and so that's kind of a double whammy, right, because I don't know about you, but, like when you have to leave early for something, or, in my case, like I, they make you take a two-week break during a deployment, when you're deployed to a combat zone, um, you're excited to go home, but all your buddies are still back there doing it, and so it's like it doesn't matter what you do, you're gonna feel guilty about something, oh yeah yeah, yeah it, but you know the family, the family would want you to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is family. That is one thing that I learned instantly on my first deployment was it was this is family. You lean on each other a lot. It's not just one person that's going through. Whatever the issue is.
Speaker 1:Right and, just like family, you pick on each other and you, I don't know, you'd probably call it hazing now, but you do all kinds of great stuff. Can't call it that, no, no, not at all. But you do all of those things together. Oh yeah, but you're right. But when you're out in town and something happens, it doesn't matter if you and that person next to you like each other or not. You're family, yes, and you're not going to allow bad things to happen. That is correct, yep.
Speaker 2:It's a bond that a civilian will never really truly understand, right, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:I would agree. So you get home. You're a couple weeks early, how does that go?
Speaker 2:It was tough. It was where do you go from here? How do we get through this? She's a strong woman, Big Catholic faith. I think she made it a little better than I did, but we were young. We knew we could survive this.
Speaker 1:Right. These kind of things can really tear a marriage up if you don't do it right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, they can. So let's see, we get back from our deployment. Which where did we end up in that? Ended up going into Naples, italy again. I think we pulled in there three times that time that deployment. Everybody goes to Naples. Yes, if you want to visit it, just go to Detroit. Same thing, yeah, ended up pulling the Cannes, france, marseilleoulon, france, spain, egypt, israel. Um, we called it the pleasure cruise. We spent 15 days in marseille, france. That was just too long. That was too long.
Speaker 1:you get soft, yeah, yeah yeah, so we did you go to port of haifa in israel yes, you guys went in yep, yep, and how'd you like that?
Speaker 2:not so much. I guess I got pretty spoiled with, uh, spain do you remember where you went?
Speaker 1:when I went, I think we went to ibiza, which is this party place, benididorm.
Speaker 2:Spain Okay, it was beautiful. It was beautiful there. If I remember right, they talked about it that that's where a lot of the Europe goes on vacation. It was gorgeous.
Speaker 1:Spain is beautiful. Yes, yep.
Speaker 2:Yep, and we stuck around there in Virginia Beach until what was it 1990?. I transferred over to NAS Pax, river Maryland. We had another baby on the way. I started working for Admiral Becker, which I worked in the Admiral's office, doing another TAD, temporary assignment duty Right, and I worked for Lieutenant Paula Coughlin and if you remember the tailhook incident, oh, I do, that's who she was. Oh, okay, she was a very nice, nice woman and it's pretty sad that this is what happened to her. Yeah, nice woman, and it's pretty sad that this is what happened to her. Yeah, um, admiral becker had ended up transferring to her admiral come in, and you know the rest of the story with the tailhook incident. So that was a big uprise in the navy right.
Speaker 1:I think that's where you, where the the line definitely got crossed between, uh, initiation and hazing. I is the best way to say it, yep.
Speaker 2:That is when all the sexual harassment started. Right, all the training, yep.
Speaker 1:Well, and if you think about it, this stuff had been going on for years and no one ever said anything, which it shouldn't have been Correct.
Speaker 2:Correct. Yeah, in fact I was working for the Admiral when I got uh third class and uh Lieutenant come running up there, jumped in there and punched me in the arm and she thought she broke her wrist. Oh no, oh no, she, she. I learned a lot from her, I really did. Uh, she was a helo pilot pilot and um it was. It was sad that that ended her career.
Speaker 1:Right, right, but she, I you know. Again, she probably paved the way for a lot of other people who may not have done that had she not had the yes, the fortitude to say something.
Speaker 2:She was a strong woman. She really was. She really was. After I got done with my assignment there, I ended up getting attached to Strike Aircraft Test Directory. It was a research facility with F-14s.
Speaker 1:Oh, I got to ask you a question, though. Yes, it's rattling around the back of my head and I meant to ask you this. So you came to the fleet as an undesignated and then you struck as AE right Aviation Electronics. Did you end up going to the school for that?
Speaker 2:No, I didn't.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Everything I learned is all hands-on and just. I'm a quick learner when I'm working, right right.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was just curious because I know a lot of times I'll send people to that school. But I know that when we talked earlier you were saying how you learned by doing it, and I think Navy schools would have driven you crazy.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've had a couple buddies in my previous squadron that had gone through AE school and they ended up flunking out on it and I'm like I'm glad I didn't do that.
Speaker 1:So you stayed in that rate though that rate, so you were AE all the way through. Okay, I didn't mean to interrupt your train of thought, it's all good, but it was rattling around in the back there, so okay.
Speaker 2:But the aircraft test directory out there. That was interesting. That was working with the engineers because the f-14 was originally designed to drop bombs and they had a lot of problems with that, with the bomb bouncing off the belly, and they were trying to straighten this out, and it was interesting just watching all the cameras that we would attach. Um, you know, along with trying to keep the aircraft flying, helping the engineers running wires, mounting cameras, it that was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Did they ever solve it? They, when I was there, I don't know. I know what was the funnest part out there was when you took an aircraft and you lift it up and you put it weight off wheels and you got a long tunnel and watching them shoot those guns right there. Oh, that was cool. Um used to be able to watch a lot of the videos, sit with the engineers and watch some of the videos. Um, whether they finally finished that and were able to do it. I was gone by the time they were done with that project. So how long were you there? I was there for about three years. Okay, three years there and being with them, we deployed onto the Lincoln and the Washington certifying the cats. That was my shore duty. It wasaryland was. Maryland was different. It was different. There there was, uh, not a lot of anything. And then I went back there probably about three years and I could not believe. I was totally lost. It's amazing how that town grew up yeah, well, think about virginia beach too.
Speaker 1:yeah, because I was there right around the same time you were and I went there a few years ago and I couldn't find anything. Yeah, and that whole area by Dam Neck and Oceana. It's all houses now. It was all swamp when I was there.
Speaker 2:We ended up moving into base housing and they had just refinished them all, just refinished the mall, and it was a nice complex, duplex, complex area and when we went back in there this had to have been about six years ago all that facility was gone, it was all wiped out and we were just like, wow, it was just like all the memories wiped out. It was hard to take.
Speaker 1:Yeah, things definitely change when you leave. Oh yeah, yes, and I don't know. In my mind I always remember it the way it was, and then I get there and I'm like, oh, this isn't even the same place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard to remember that when that building is gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that memory's not there anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're there for three years, uh, and then you, you leave, uh, maryland. Where do you go from there? From there, I uh transferred up to brunswick, maine. I just worked, my kept working my way north. Um, I got into the p3 community, um, I ended up going to a school. In fact, uh moved the family up to Pax River or up to Brunswick, maine, which is a little desolate up there, and we had Christmas.
Speaker 2:And three days later I'm on my way back down to Pax River to head to my school, my instrument school, in Jacksonville, florida. I spend a day there and Pax River gets a big snowstorm and I've got my Harley to ride down to Pax River, maryland. So me and the buddy get the bike out of the garage and I got to ride through the subdivision on the sidewalk because the ice on the roads. Once I got off the subdivision I go about 20 miles. I have to go find a rest stop, to go use a hand dryer to warm my hands up. So I leave my wife up in Brunswick, maine, which is like being in the UP Up on Brunswick While I'm going down to Jacksonville, florida for a month for school. How'd that go over? Yeah, not so well.
Speaker 1:I can imagine she's got two, two children, right, yep. Two kids, a six-year-old and a three-year-old, Um yeah, great, great ages, but not when you're trying to do it by yourself.
Speaker 2:So I, uh, I go down to my instrument school down there and I complete that up my father he's down there at Daytona Bike Week. We have a little vacation for a week down at.
Speaker 1:Daytona Bike Week. While she's up in the snow, you didn't call home and say anything, did you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had to let her know that's how I was getting home. So we loaded up the bike and we headed back up to Maine. And my dad's. Like you know, this isn't the way to michigan. I said it's almost so we get back up to brunswick, maine, and uh, five days later I'm deployed over to puerto rico man, I'm thinking you're not very popular in your house right now, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Does she think that you're like making all this happen? You know?
Speaker 2:she wasn't happy and we had a neighbor lived across street, old retired senior chief, and he would go out and snowblow the driveway for her, helped her out and she was making him cinnamon rolls left and right. So yeah, that was a good community. That was a good neighborhood. It was all military. She got a lot of support while I was gone.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah especially if she makes cinnamon rolls. Oh yes, yes, Are they good, really good, cinnamon rolls? Oh my gosh, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 2:So you've gotten two vacations in the sunshine while all all this was going on in brunswick. Oh yeah, yeah, that was uh, it was kind of humorous. It was when I got there they did not have a uh instrument shop for me to work, so they stuck me into the electrician shop working on p30 rinds, which I had no clue about a p30 rind, except it had four motors. Quick learner working 12 hours a day. Get off work.
Speaker 2:I'd go swim laps in the pool, kind of looked up there and ran into one of my old pilots out of vf11 I haven't seen in about four years, so it was kind of nice it was. It was kind of good to see a familiar face because I knew nobody at all in this command. Yeah, and the p3 community is a little bit different than the f-14 community. It really is. It's a different kind of flying it is, and it was funny to listen people complaining that they're out there for six months and and I'm like I get off work, I can go to a restaurant, I can go have a beer, I can go to the store and go buy something. I'm liking this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little different.
Speaker 2:It's a little different. Yeah, once we got that deployment under my belt, I went back to Brunswick, maine, and I started working for the AI&D Aviation Intermittent Maintenance Department, working in the 62B, which is the instrument repair shop. The way that worked was there was a couple people that were stationed there and then there was three commands that were there and one person would always deploy out for six months at a time, so you always had some people rotating in and out of there. It was kind of nice. Uh, it was a good job. It was a regular nine to five job. Go see the guys at the command and they're working 12 hours a day, seven days a week and we're like on a five-day work. I'm like i'm'm not going to complain.
Speaker 1:Right, you're not going to say anything either, are you? Nope, nope, nope, nope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was, it was nice, it was, uh it it. Maine was beautiful, it was it's like being in UP, up there. It's gorgeous up there and they know how to clean the roads. I ended up doing, uh, two more deployments with them, six-month deployments into Sicily, which was Sicily was gorgeous.
Speaker 2:It was again, command would deploy over to Sicily. Command is working seven days a week, 12 hours a day. I'd get shoved over to AIMD. I got a nine-to-five job, wow, in Sicily, yes, so, uh, the guy that uh worked for me, that was stationed there, uh, james Elliott. At that time he was an E3 and last I spoke to him he retired out as a master chief, did very well for himself, um, but uh, he was another one, didn't have two nickels to rub. But you know what he's telling me come on out, stay at his place. We're going out, we're going to go up Mount Etna, we're going to go into town. Good guy, great guy.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's the other thing. I think, when you go to these different places, even if you don't have money, there's always something to do.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yep, there's a. You know. You know the movie theater is always cheap, but just to get out in town and just walk around and see the way things are, how much different it is, is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, cause you could stay. I guess you could just stay in your room and do and do nothing and waste the time. A lot of people did it. Yeah, yeah, I know I watched it, so you, so that cicely was your final deployment with them cicely.
Speaker 2:I ended up leaving cicely about two months before the deployment end because my eos was up, um, I was transferring out. I wanted to get I don't know if you remember the magazine Link Magazine back then it was always sign up for my command. We need people here?
Speaker 1:Yes, I know, yeah, wow, wow, I totally forgot about that until you mentioned it. But yes, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, link wanted recruiters in.
Speaker 2:Michigan. But yes, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, link wanted recruiters in Michigan and my commander was going to push for it. He wanted me to do it, he was all for it, but my detailer would not let me go. He said I owe him another year at sea and having the two kids. I had enough of being away from them. It was time for me to go home and be with my family. My son was getting old enough. He was going to start playing sports. I did not want to miss that, was not going to miss it.
Speaker 1:I don't blame you. You know, terry, we were this close to being recruiters together. Really, I recruited up here in Michigan right around the same time, okay, so we were this close to having to work together, anyway. But you made the right decision for you and your family and you come back to Michigan. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:I took a year off out of the military and I wish I would not have done that, but I had to start my civilian job, um which all of my training, my calibration, uh, really helped me with my civilian job, and it has through the years.
Speaker 1:So what'd you do? What do you? What's your civilian job right?
Speaker 2:now. Well, what I did do is I originally started out working at a research and development and testing and warranty work for Delphi. Okay, automotive oil filters, fuel pumps, fuel filters Kind of go to work and play, sometimes blow them up Fuel tanks, dropping fuel tanks, solid oxide fuel cells. I really, really enjoyed the research and development. After things started falling apart with Delphi, I got into the medical field and do quality work, control, did that for a couple of years and then one of my previous supervisors let me know about this position for this new German company coming out here in East Lansing. If I was interested, testio North America and I really liked the idea of coming into a facility at ground level, which it was right at ground level. The inside of the building was gutted out. I was like probably number employee number four, the other three employees. We all went to Germany for a six-month training. So I got to spend six weeks in Germany and that was another vacation. That was another vacation. After that I'm actually managing the calibration lab for them. It's been pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:But after I took my year off from the military, I ended up joining the 125 infantry into Flint, michigan. So this is the Michigan Army National Guard, yes, and I went into the scout platoon. It was a quite different, quite different than the Navy, but it was pretty amazing it was. It was fun there was things that we had a partner challenge ship in Camp Grayling which we had. It was the Lithuanians, it was basically everybody that broke off from Russia Right, come and train with us. I remember an 80-pound rucksack, 12-mile hike yeah, that was my first one ever. That was yeah, that was something.
Speaker 1:We didn't do that in the Navy, did we? We did it in the army national guard though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and people falling out and you know what it's. Grab that bag, grab that weapon, grab whatever you can and just keep on going. I remember having my arms were just loaded up. I think I had at least four weapons, with a couple rucksacks, plus the one because I'm not a little guy. They gave me the big one filled with sand to carry and I'm two miles out and I see the guys coming back. You want me to take that. I've made it this far. I'm going to finish this last mile. I don't blame you. That was pretty fun training with the different countries. Uh, that was, that was pretty fun training with the different countries. And then, uh, the following year, we went to norway and we trained with like 15 countries and that was pretty amazing. That was uh, seeing how different countries react upon fire, how they do roadblocks, uh, how they do riot control. That was fun, that was interesting. Norway was beautiful. Norway was just beautiful. That was one hard country to leave.
Speaker 1:Well, you know that's. The cool thing about the Michigan National Guard is that they have all these relationships and partnerships with all these different countries, so you can join the National Guard here and actually go do a lot of things you wouldn't do on active duty. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It was very, very interesting. I just know my career wasn't going to go far through that being prior Navy, and I ended up having to run into a recruiter one day up at the mall and he was the Navy Reserve recruiter.
Speaker 2:And we had talked off and on for about two months and when I made the decision on this it was like just weeks before September 11th attack, tack on trade center, and it was a hard decision whether I was going to do. And, uh, when I found out that they went to the airport with their weapons in no ammo, I was, like that, made my mind up pretty fast that you know, I know.
Speaker 1:Right, right. That's just a shoot me first kind of thing.
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, so that's uh. I ended up transferring, transferring to, uh, the naval reserves in salfridge so how long were you in the national guard then?
Speaker 1:three years, exactly. Okay, all right, so you've got a pretty. I mean, other than that one year break. You've got a pretty. I mean, other than that one-year break. You've got pretty good, continuous time. Yes, yes, and they didn't have any problem letting you go to the Navy Reserve.
Speaker 2:Not at all. In fact, I got very lucky because I had went in, told my CO that this is what I'd like to do. They signed it or approved it. I went back to turn everything in and he said you got lucky. It was two days later.
Speaker 1:We stopped all transfers yeah, it was hard to get out of the, out of the national guard, to go to a different group oh, yeah, I got.
Speaker 2:I got very lucky, um, but it was one drill to the next month was into the navy, I didn't skip a beat. Feel like you were back home a little bit. Yes, yeah, it felt good to put that uh, you know dungarees back on.
Speaker 1:They were still wearing dungarees, weren't they?
Speaker 2:Uh, they were just transferring into the newer uniform, yeah, yes, yeah, the dungarees, they were amazing. Yeah, yeah, they were different. Where else are you going to get paid that kind of money to wear bell?
Speaker 1:bottoms.
Speaker 2:Come on, Uh-huh uh-huh, and then they fall back around and people are wearing them again.
Speaker 1:I know, I know Nothing's new. No, nothing's new, for sure so what were you doing in the Navy then in the Naval Reserve?
Speaker 2:I was attached to Signell Sisley, aimd and my deploymentsments. My ATs two weeks was supposed to be to Sicily and I kind of reached out and asked if I could possibly go up to Brunswick, maine, and go to the instrument shop. And they're like, if you can get a point of contact and get this worked out. So the first time up and around I think there was like seven of us that went to brunswick and I walked right back into the shop that I used to actually manage and work out of. So it was kind of nice. Everything, all the toolboxes, were exactly the same, it was the same did that feel.
Speaker 2:I mean that that had to feel good, yes, it did, yes, it did, it did. And after I had done this several times and and I got at a point where I turned around, started asking instead of doing my drill weekends here, can I do four or five days and go over to brunswick and work there? And they're like, if you can get it set up, you can do it. So I started doing that for at least three and a half years and I'm in there working one day and here comes the senior chief and he was just dumbfounded that I was back in there working on the instruments again.
Speaker 1:So you did run into someone that you had served with. Oh yes, Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:And he was like you know what, when you guys are working on this fuel quantities, you better listen to this guy. He was good with it and it's kind of funny because when you go on your AT, you're going there to train. Well, now I was going there to train them that were already active duty, so it was good it was. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Well, that's good, and it's nice that you could bring something back to that. I know a lot of times we get reservists on board the ship and they just didn't have the experience that you had, and so it could be tough for them finding stuff for them to do and keeping them busy and trying to train them, because you only got them for two weeks. But if they don't know anything that's going on, it's really difficult yes, yep, in fact we had that one time.
Speaker 2:Um, we had a couple of uh aes come into the shop that were reservists and at the time, and I don't know anything about it, I may have ran them when I was at back at selfridge but, uh, they were really clueless on the indicators but but they've never worked on one. So I'm like here you go, you can't break it, go for it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Let them train.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a guy tighten down all of my variable resistors in a computer system one time because he thought they were loose. You know, variable resistors, you can, yes, turn them up, turn them down, right, you don't mess with those, like they're set from the factory, you don't touch them. He there was like a whole row of cards I had, like there was like 20 of them, and he tightened them all down for us because he thought they were loose. That actually, that actually. So I'm glad to see that you contributed something as a reservist.
Speaker 2:I believe that it was interesting as active duty with a reservist. So then I'm going back as a reservist into the same shop and I'm thinking, these guys and I'm watching and I'm just listening and I can tell they're nervous about me touching anything. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I turn around and I'm just listening and I can tell they're nervous about me touching anything. Oh yeah, and I turn around and I'm kind of like, hey, why don't we try this? Well, I don't know if that's going to work, let's give it a shot. Hey, that did work. Okay good. And they started lighting up. They understood and finally I had to tell them. I said I walked out of the shop. This was my last duty station right here in the shop and they're like, well, oh well, can you fix this? Yeah, I can do that.
Speaker 1:That's not a problem. Yeah, when they understand the whole situation, that changes things for you.
Speaker 2:Yes, so how long did you do this? I did that flying back and forth for about three years. It got a little hectic but it was good, and after that I started to back off on flying. I'd go, probably at least three times a year.
Speaker 1:I'd go back, at least I would definitely do my AT back there if I did not find a school to go to. Okay, and all the while, you're still working at your civilian job.
Speaker 2:Yep, and they're all good with this? Yes, they are. One of my schooling it was kind of funny was Kings Bay, georgia. It's a sub-base leadership school that I went to and I'm walking around there and one of the guys has to stop me and he looks at me and he goes what is that rate on your arm? I said it's aviation electronics. What are you, what are you doing here? I said I think they're getting a program where they're going to start putting aircrafts on the subs and he's like really, bubbleheads, those bubbleheads.
Speaker 1:It's a special group of people. Yes, I took a tour once of a submarine and I'm like oh, to each his own.
Speaker 2:You know, I I've got a few of my club brothers that are bubble heads. Oh my gosh. Yeah, they're, they're, they're different. Yeah, very special people.
Speaker 1:So how long did you stay in the reserves, then total?
Speaker 2:I ended up doing a little over nine years with the reserves. I ended up retiring out of the reserves. I retired September 11, 2010. I had my flag was flown at the USS Stark Memorial in Mayport. Wow, and it was interesting was, when I called to have this set up, the chief that I was talking to at the time he said that his wife knew Kelly Quick. They went to school together there at, uh, whatever their a school was, he was an et. That's what he was. He was an et, okay. So yeah, she was. She was not active anymore, but she uh, yeah, so that's. I tried to get to fly on the anniversary, but it was too late for that. That was already taken right.
Speaker 1:Well, at least you got to fly it over the memorial. Yes, yes, you know I want to. I want to circle back on all of that. So you have this great military career and and really you're having a great civilian career as well. Um, I'm not sure how to ask the question, but how did the loss of your friend influence how you, uh, how you carried yourself through your career, or did it at?
Speaker 2:all, I think I got too wrapped up in my family. Um, there was a lot of things that after I retired that I kind of followed up on. It hit me a little bit more about Kelly, you know, raising two kids and that and working and your weekends are going away with you know ATs or so you get a little bit busy, right, um it. It was nice when I did retire. It felt like, okay, I can breathe a little bit here. Um, it's, there's a ceremony every year out in Swartz Creek dedicated to the USS Stark. Um, red, the names are red every year. Um, like I said, out in Swartz Creek dedicated to the USS Stark, the names are read every year. Like I said, right after that, that's where I got my dedication tattoo for the USS Stark.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah. So, like anything, when you're living your life, some things kind of fall by the wayside, but a lot of it comes back and I think friendships stay with us always. Oh yes, you ever think how it would have been different if maybe you would have been able to serve with him.
Speaker 2:I've always kind of thought that it's interesting, as I've ran into some friends that know him very well within the past year and I have not heard one bad word about Kelly, and Rob is a lot like his brother Kelly. Rob is a great guy. My tragedies that I've had through life he has always been there, and I imagine Kelly would have been there too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh absolutely no doubt. So you. You uh retire from the uh naval reserve. What now? What year did you retire? Uh 2010 to september 11 2010 yep, so it's been a little while since you've been. I retired myself in 2011 Memorial Day, so not too far behind you, um, and so you're still working in your civilian career.
Speaker 2:Yes, I am, uh, it's. Uh, I'm going to probably be there for quite a while. I really liked this company I'm working for, and plus they're talking about sending me to Germany again, and there's some good food and good beer there what is it that really smart guy?
Speaker 1:I think mark twain said it like if you love what you do, you never have to work a day in your life. Exactly that's kind of where you're at. I am, I am, yeah, and so you're also involved with this, uh, with this veterans motorcycle club. Yes, um, let's talk about that. How did that come about?
Speaker 2:me and a buddy were sitting in the garage having a few beers and he was prior Navy and he asked if his buddy could come on over from Ohio. And he showed up with his buddy and they're both members of the US Military Vets Motorcycle Club. We sat and we talked for a while, kind of getting some information about them. They left a card and I kind of got at a point where I think I'm ready to do this in my life. I mean, I think I'm ready to go see what these guys are about and check them out. And it really wasn't. That was what, 2012. We lost our daughter in a car accident and I stepped away from everything for quite a while Everything. After about three years of finally getting my head out of my ass, I reached out to the US Military Vets Motorcycle Club and see what they're all about and it was great to see these guys see the military again.
Speaker 2:I've been hanging around riding motorcycles since I was 16. Hung around with some clubs a little bit, but nothing serious. The first day I went there to their annual, I knew this is where I belong. I missed it. It definitely is not in the civilian world at all. So seven years now with the club I've got a chapter I opened up here in Durand. Our goal is to help the veterans in this Genesee County as much as possible. We work with strength in numbers. We try to do as much as we can with them, helping homeless vets.
Speaker 1:It is good to be back with my brothers again. Yeah, there's something about that bond with military folks and you know, when I talked to my son he served as well. When he gets together with his friends that he might not have seen in years, you just sort of pick up where you left off. It's almost that way with veterans you never served with.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, oh yeah. And it's funny is, every once in a while I'll be talking with somebody and we had to have had passed each other on the base one way or another and it's like, wow, yeah, you know this guy out of that command. Yes, and you're talking to somebody out of Florida that you meet in Connecticut for an annual or anything. So it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:Right. So I'm going to ask this kind of a sensitive question, but do you think that this helped you with the loss of your daughter? I'm not saying you get over it because you don't.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's helped me much. I never had a big religious background. Within the past year I have. I think that has helped me a lot okay a lot.
Speaker 2:Um, I know when I have a problem, I have issues, I can talk my brothers, I can. I I can send a message and I can call anybody here in any of the states that we're in and I can count on them. And I've still got a few of my friends that I served with back in VF-11 that I can call right now if I need something.
Speaker 1:And I was going to ask you that too, because I do have friends from both the Navy and the National Guard that I still keep in touch with. It sounds like you're doing the same thing.
Speaker 2:I've got probably at least three of my friends from VF-11 back in the 87, the first time I met them Barry Hurd from Tennessee a little hillbilly Barry Heard, from Tennessee, a little hillbilly. Matt King, straight from Queens, new York, which about two years ago I got him into the club. And Steve Swartz I call him my little Jew buddy. We lost touch probably in 90. He went out, graduated from Ohio State, went out to California when Google was starting. He did very well for himself. And Facebook is when we reconnected and we turn around. We just pick on each other a lot. It's just back and forth. And he talked about coming up this way and he was going to see his brother again in ohio and I told him I said door is open, come on up here. You know, I would say this was probably in 2015 had a birthday party for a friend and I'm in the backyard and I got a buddy and in fact this was wally.
Speaker 2:I thought I knew him when I was a little kid and as I was a kid, I'm looking at him, thought he was the biggest, baddest biker there was in the world long hair, long beard and then minging him. See, I died. Now so he's telling me I got to go up front. Amy's got something there. She needs you up front. About the third time he's like you need to go up there now. So I go up there, go to the garage and there's Steve, and I haven't seen Steve in 25 years, wow. So it was two grown men hugging and crying yeah. And we got even tighter. He's gone through a lot of rough stuff. I check on him daily. He's lost part of his leg because of a motorcycle accident, he's fought cancer and he keeps yelling at me that I need to be the one fighting and I'm like, dude, you need to hang in there.
Speaker 1:Well, we have to be there for each other, right? Yes, yes, yeah, we have to be each other's strength, yep.
Speaker 2:And you know I can't thank Steve enough, I can't thank my buddy, rob enough, and I can't thank my club brothers enough for being there, and I would do the same for all of them.
Speaker 1:Right, this is sort of the unspoken thing that everyone knows that, that you know I'm here now, but I know that you'd be here if it's me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's, there's. There's times he's called me in the middle of the night, just, but I there's times he's called me in the middle of the night, but I told him to fight and he's fighting, he's going to fight. It's amazing how this world really goes, with all the thieves and crooks and crackheads, and they can just keep on moving. You've got some good people that go through some rough times that don't make it.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and you know I, I know you. You mentioned that you just sort of found some religion in your life and uh, it's funny, um, I was listening to a guy talk one time and um, he said he gets really irritated when people say you know, that was just God's. Will you know? Uh, I don't think God wills people to get cancer. I don't think God wills people say you know, that was just God's. Will you know? Uh, I don't think God wills people to get cancer. I don't think God wills people to to get sick or doesn't will bad things to happen to them. Um, but I think it's. There's a plan for us and whatever it is we're going through, it's part of that plan.
Speaker 2:Yep, and we don't know what's going to happen next. We don't. That's the mystery, right? We don't know what's going to happen next?
Speaker 1:We don't. That's the mystery, right? We don't know what the plan is as much as we'd like to Yep.
Speaker 2:it's a roller coaster of life and it seems to be a lot more downs than there are ups, but those ups are great when they do happen, make it all worth it.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. So we've covered a lot, we've talked a lot. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that?
Speaker 2:you want to talk about the 22 yeah it's uh, it's a tough number and uh, there's got to be a way to get that number down. It's got to be. They can just talk, just reach out. Just reach out. You may find the happiest, funniest vet you can find. He's got his own ghost and skeletons.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think reaching out, reaching out to people, um, on a regular basis. I used to work for a guy and every day he would call somebody he hadn't talked to in a long time and just talk to him on, like on his way home from work. Um, I think there's power in that, you know. I also think that if you look at your motorcycle club, that within that club there is at least one person who would have been part of that 22. That's not because of what the club does, oh yeah, and I think there's a lot of different groups that do that, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's being there with people that have been in the same place, the same boat, the same situation that you have, and they've made it. Maybe I can.
Speaker 1:Right, right and, and at some point, absolutely, I can Right. Yes, it just takes time to get to that point. Yes, sir. Well, it's been great talking with you today. Um, there is one question that I ask everyone before we leave, um, and that is that is you know, people are going to hear your story, um, whether it's 10 days from now or 100 years from now, um, the story is part of the archive. Um, as you think about the conversation that we've had today and things we've talked about, what would you want people to take away from your life if they're listening to this?
Speaker 2:wow, maybe you should have asked that earlier. I could have wrote something down.
Speaker 1:It's one of those questions Wow.
Speaker 2:I look in this and I don't think I accomplished as much as I should have through life, through my military career, but I signed on the dotted line. To me, anybody who does that, that's a big signature. You see a vet. Just give them a thank you. Um, it means a lot to them, more than you truly do know. This is an amazing thing with these stories. Um, I wish we would have done this more sooner in life with people. Um, finding out my uncle, danny, was with the 82nd Airborne during World War II. I don't know nothing about it. I just hope more vets will do this. Like I said, I don't have much of an impact, but I know there's a lot of other people. My brothers have a lot more of a story than I've got.
Speaker 1:Well, terry, I think I think we all have our stories and I think that they're all important and impactful. Um, the guy that served two years or the guy that served 50 years, there's always something there. And you're right. When you sign on that dotted line, it's a big deal. You're writing a blank check up to and including your life. Yes, yep, all right. Well, thanks for talking with me today, thanks for joining me and being part of veterans archives. Thank you, thank you.
