Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
In a world where storytelling has been our link to the past since the days of cave drawings, there exists a timeless tradition. It's the art of passing down knowledge, and for Military Veterans, it's a crucial piece of their legacy. Join us on the Veterans Archives Podcast, where we dive deep into the heartwarming and awe-inspiring stories of those who served, no matter when or where.
Here, Veterans get the chance to be the authors of their own narratives. Through guided interviews in a relaxed and safe environment, they paint their experiences with their own words and unique voices. The result? A memory card in a presentation box, a precious gift they can share however they please.
But that's not all. These stories find a secure home in our archive, a treasure chest of experiences for future generations to explore. The best part? It's all a gift to the Veteran – our way of saying thank you for their service.
Tune in to the Veterans Archives Podcast, where history, heroism, and heartwarming tales come to life.
Veterans Archives is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Please visit our website for more information. www.veteransarchives.org
Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
The Remarkable Journey of John Book: From Small-Town Roots to Vietnam Veteran and Faithful Family Man
Ever wondered how a journey from a small Illinois town leads to Vietnam and back, touching countless lives along the way? Our guest, John Book, shares his remarkable story of resilience, faith, and love. Born in Carbondale, Illinois, John takes us back to his early years spent between Florida and Illinois, driven by his father's Army service. From childhood memories on his grandfather's farm to the move to California in 1958, John paints a vivid picture of the family dynamics and cultural shifts that shaped his formative years.
John's high school years unfold with tales of mastering musical instruments, the challenges of adapting to a new environment, and the unique experiences of learning Spanish. His reflections on military service are especially gripping, recounting basic training, time at Fort Benjamin Harrison, and deployment to Vietnam in 1968. John shares a fascinating twist about almost going to Korea, meeting his future wife in Michigan, and eloping—stories that highlight his adaptability and dedication amidst life's unpredictable turns.
Transitioning back to civilian life, John pursued academic and professional success with the same determination. From working as an auditor for the Army to a business tax auditor role in California, his career journey is marked by perseverance. John also opens up about the joy of finding love again through CatholicMatch.com, marrying Joan, and deepening his faith journey. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of faith, family, and service, shedding light on how these elements intertwine to shape a resilient and fulfilling life. Join us for an inspiring conversation with John Book that underscores the transformative power of faith and love.
Good afternoon. It's Thursday, september 26th, 2024. Today I'm talking with John Book, who served in the United States Army. So, john, if you would tell us when and where you were born, I was born in Carbondale, illinois, in October 21, 1944.
Speaker 2:And my mom the reason I never lived there after I was born until I went to college there years later. My mom had a sister who was married to one of the coaches at the university. Her name was Elise, and so she stayed with her for about two weeks until I was born, because there was no hospital in the town my mom was from.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you were born in Carbondale, but you never lived there.
Speaker 2:Never lived there until years later I went to school there I graduated from there.
Speaker 1:Were a lot of the kids in your town. Then were they born at home.
Speaker 2:At home, right at home, and my mom, admirably, did not want to have me born at home. She's more comfortable with a hospital, with nurses and doctors and in case something went wrong, so she was more comfortable that way okay.
Speaker 1:So what town did you go back to after you were born?
Speaker 2:It was during the war and I believe I'm not really for sure but my mom, when she was able, after I was born, went down to be with my dad in Florida. He was stationed someplace in Jacksonville, Florida, and until until the war was over that's where we were. And after the war I came to live with my mom and dad at a house on my grandfather's farm. Okay, and where was that?
Speaker 1:located.
Speaker 2:That was located just south of Fairfield Illinois. Okay. Fairfield is a county seat of Wayne County, illinois, and it's a few miles south, and in 1946, my brother came along and so I vaguely remember. There are pictures of us at the farm and so I vaguely remember that farmhouse.
Speaker 1:So I want to go back, though so. Was your dad serving in the Navy then? I'm assuming he was in the Army In the Army in Jacksonville Florida.
Speaker 2:In Jacksonville Florida. He was in the Army Band Okay, army Band and so he never served overseas at all. I guess they needed a band there for all kinds of ceremonies and things of that nature, so he never got overseas, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, as a veteran. We all served in the way that we serve, right, Right. So did you have brothers and sisters?
Speaker 2:I had the one brother and then, after the one brother, I had three sisters. The first sister was Jeannie, born in 48, kathy, born in 52, and then a menopause baby born in 1962, when we were living in California.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, so you were the oldest, then I'm the oldest, yep, and then. Okay, so three sisters and a brother. Now let's talk a little bit about your time on the farm. You say you don't really remember a whole lot about that, so about when did you leave the farm or where did you go from there?
Speaker 2:well, once I was ready for school, kindergarten, we uh moved into town, into fairfield, and we rented a house just down the block from my grandparents, so that really worked out. You know, I'm close to grandma and grandpa and that was very and by the time that occurred there, so that'd be 49 to 53. And then after 53, my dad found a job in another small community, st Elmo, illinois, and we moved there and we lived there for five years.
Speaker 1:We lived there for five years.
Speaker 2:Okay, you know when we think about your mom and dad when you think about your mom, what's one memory you have of her? Well, she was a stay-at-home mom. She had a teaching degree from Southern Illinois University, a two-year teaching degree, and she taught for five years. By 1941, my dad got a teaching position as a music teacher in Fairfield and that's where they met, and so he was just there. In that one year they met, they became engaged and they got married. They became engaged and they got married, and during that time teachers male teachers were allowed to stay on until after the school year and then they went into service. Okay.
Speaker 2:So they got married in July 1942, right after school was out and before he went into the service. So he went to basic, I think, at Camp Stewart, georgia, and then, when my mom could go and be with him, she went there and she worked for the quartermaster. She was a great seamstress and doing all kinds of things on the uniforms and other things having to do with being a seamstress. She could really work a sewing machine very well.
Speaker 1:Sounds like she kept busy while your dad was keeping busy, right? Yes?
Speaker 2:she was busy and he was busy. Then, in October of 44, during the war, I came along, so she went back to Illinois. I don't know exactly when she went down to meet him. If it was, she had to go back to have me and then went back to be with him.
Speaker 1:Okay, so kind of the same question about your dad. What are some things you remember about your dad?
Speaker 2:Well, he was a music teacher and he was a very good music teacher. After the war he went to get a master's degree at his university, illinois Wesleyan University, in Normal Illinois, right next to Bloomington, and it took him 10 summers to get this degree and so he was busy with the kids, teaching them the instruments and being a band director and concerts and parades and all this stuff. So he was quite busy, but he did spend a lot of time with us. He wanted to make sure that we would at least experience music in the household and learn an instrument. So we all had a different instrument I had the clarinet, my brother had the trombone, which was my dad's instrument. My sister Jeannie had a flute. I don't know Kathy, she came along in 52. I'm not really for sure if she had an instrument or not, but my youngest sister, born in 62 in California, is the only sister that followed in my dad's footsteps and she got a master's degree from Eastern Illinois University and she just did retire herself after 37 years of being a music teacher. But you never really retire if you're in the music business, if you're a music teacher, because after that then comes giving lessons and filling in as a substitute teacher when they need you and all that.
Speaker 2:But he was a very you know kind dad. He was, he did. He treated us very well and it's always hard for him to say I love you and and he wasn't really you know the hugging, you know caring kind of dad, but he was kind and always, you know, spent time with us. So you knew he loved you even though he didn't. Oh yeah, I knew he loved us. Yeah, he took very good care of us and one thing he liked about having his two sons is they could help him with the yard, work Right and play ball with him. And he took us over to St Louis one time to see Stan Musial play and I don't know if the young people, if you remember that ball player, stan Musial, but he played for the Cardinals.
Speaker 1:I know who he is. I never saw him play.
Speaker 2:Yes, he was a, he was quite, he was in the 40s and 50s and he was one of the good. He was an all-star and he was an all-star. So my dad loved to take us out for ball games. So later on in life, when he was retired, I took him once to see the Tigers play at the old Tiger Stadium in Detroit, and so he had a lot of enjoyment about being there for that. Oh, that's exciting, that's very cool.
Speaker 1:So let's talk a little bit about what was it like going to grade school for you. Were you a good student? Did you enjoy school?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I did. My mom was a teacher and so if I had any problem with studies she could help us. And the best part of growing up was my mom was a stay-at-home mom and she was always. There was a stay-at-home mom and she was always there and she actually back in those days, if you were married you couldn't be a teacher as a female, really, yep. But she wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. Once she raised all those kids, then she went back to teaching for another 20 years and retired. So overall about 25 years she was a teacher, but she had patience. I never, hardly ever, saw her upset and mad. She just gave you the look. If you messed up, we got the look and that was it. If my dad got upset with her about something, she gave him the look and he just melted.
Speaker 1:So the look worked on everyone. The look worked on everybody.
Speaker 2:The look was doing everybody yeah, uh, but she was a great mom and, um, uh, we, we all went to church together and we were very there, was a very faithful family and all that so well as you moved through your educational career, um, and you got into high school, did you play sports?
Speaker 1:Were you in the band? What kinds of things did you do?
Speaker 2:I was in the band. Of course I was in the band In St Elmo when we moved from Fairfield in 53, it was a small town and junior high and high school were in the same building and so once I got into junior high I was in the band with my dad. It was the only time I was ever in the band with my dad, so I know I watched myself so I wouldn't mess up.
Speaker 1:How did it feel to be in the band with your dad, though? Oh, it was good.
Speaker 2:It was good. I didn't take any flack from anybody. You know that he was there. Everybody really, really appreciated him. It was a small town. He was the only music teacher in the entire town about 2,500 people and so he worked with the grade school kids in getting them ready with instruments and everything and so that once they were in junior high they would be ready to be in the band if they still wanted to. It was all elective Right. So he tried to create, you know, an environment which is be welcoming to the kids. So so he had a lot of patience because, trying to learn an instrument, it took me a few years to get a decent note out of my clarinet that's a tough instrument to play as read it's aed.
Speaker 2:It was a tough instrument to play but it was easier for me than the cornet. I wanted to be a trumpet player first. Either trumpet or cornet, they're about the same but I just couldn't get the knack of the embouchure how my lips and the mouthpiece work together. So reed was better, and later on in life I also tried the saxophone and I loved the sax A lot easier to play, even than the clarinet.
Speaker 1:Really, because it looks so complicated.
Speaker 2:No, the saxophone is a lot easier to play. The mouthpiece is better to play, so overall I enjoyed playing the sax. I never did own a sax, but I still have my two clarinets at home. One clarinet was for the marching band and the other clarinet is for the concert band, Because you don't want to have a good clarinet out in all the weather and all that.
Speaker 1:Right, I feel like we should have had you bring it with you. It would have been nice to hear a song. You bring it with you.
Speaker 2:It would have been nice to hear a song, no they. I was considering maybe going into a community band with the clarinet, but I need lessons. It's been so long I wouldn't have to take lessons all over again and the clarinets probably need to have some maintenance done on them to get them fixed up a little bit yeah, because they have all the cork where they fit together there's a cork that sometimes dries up and you need to replace that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so so you, uh, anything else stand out in high school? You just kind of made it through high school. Well, what stood out in high school? You just kind of made it through high school.
Speaker 2:Well, what stood out in high school is that once my dad got a master's degree in 1958, he was heeding the advice of our relatives in Southern California to come to California, the land of milk and honey Right opportunity, all that stuff, and in Southern California, because a lot of relatives of ours worked in the war plants there during the war and they're telling us the school systems are just bursting at the seams.
Speaker 2:The demand is just out there. So he did and he auctioned off everything that we had Furniture, everything, furniture, appliances, and off. We went to Riverside, california in 1958. We drove out there in our 1958 Pontiac station wagon with no air Mom, dad and four kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't want to interrupt, but for the people listening out there, they used to make cars that did not have air conditioning Air conditioning didn't exist for a long time, not then Made for some nice warm rides, yep.
Speaker 2:Yep. Well, you could roll down the window and that was the air conditioning.
Speaker 1:We used to call it 260 air conditioning, where you roll down two windows and go 60 miles an hour.
Speaker 2:Yep yeah, yeah. So that was quite an experience to go from Southern Illinois and it wasn't as diverse at all. But out in California everything was diverse and different, but we didn't have too much problem assimilating out there. I found out that when I was in ninth grade I was not in high school, because the population was growing so fast. There was not enough room for ninth grade in the high school, but they had room for us in the junior high. So I was still in junior high. They didn't have middle schools. They didn't have any middle schools back then. So I was in junior high Shemawa Junior High and then after that I was in Ramona High School for my 10th and 11th and then my senior year, my mom and dad decided that they're going to move to a new home in Riverside and I still couldn't understand years later why they made that decision, because we were only in that house for a year and then we moved back to Illinois. We moved back. They were homesick for Illinois. They were homesick for Illinois. My grandfather passed away and they felt the urge to go back, and even though California was nice, my aunt and uncle lived out there and I had some other relatives. But anyway, that was my high school.
Speaker 2:Experience is just adjusting to all the things going on. But I was in band and I was in sports. I was in track, okay, and I did a little football. But I enjoyed track better because I could run. You know, if I ever got in trouble with anybody, I could run. I could run. But I did all types of running and track and 440 relay and sprints and nothing long like cross countrycountry or anything like that. I did the broad jump. That's what they called it back then. Now they call it the long jump. I tried my hand at high jump but track was okay with me. Yep, so you enjoyed that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but track was okay with me, yep, so you enjoyed that, yeah, and the way they organized the high schools out there. When you went into high school, you had certain programs you could get into If you just wanted a degree. That's it. There was a curriculum for that. There was a curriculum for people going into trade schools, and so some of these students already knew exactly where they were going. And then there was college prep, and so I was in the college prep and so I had to take a foreign language, and it was Spanish. I chose because, well, I'm in California, southern California.
Speaker 1:that's a language you probably need. Yes, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, but my Mexican-American friends, my amigos, had as much trouble because they don't speak Spanish. They don't speak Castilian Spanish, and what's taught in schools is Castilian Spanish, the way they speak it in Spain and South America. They speak a slang, and so they had as much trouble as I did learning Spanish, but they had better accents than I did.
Speaker 2:Had that going for them yes, but I had better accents than I did, right, yeah, had that going for them, that was yes, but I had three years of Spanish and, of course, I don't hardly know anything any Spanish now, because if you don't use it, you'll lose it, right?
Speaker 1:So did you finish out high school in California In?
Speaker 2:California.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I was out there just long enough to go to four years of high school, got you? I was out there just long enough to go to four years of high school and we had the graduation. We had like 600 students in the graduating class.
Speaker 2:A lot bigger than the school you came from, right oh yes, oh yeah, the little school I came from in Southern Illinois, so we had that and there was a special program that the city opened up all the movie theaters and we basically had an all-nighter at the community center downtown with dancing and I was playing cards with my buddies and then we went would see movies and right after this all-night party my dad and I and my brother got into the car and we headed back to Illinois, leaving my mom, who was pregnant, and my two sisters, because my dad took that summer and checked in with all of his college buddies for an opening for a job. Yeah.
Speaker 2:He was checking to see where the openings and he found one in Urbana, illinois. So guess where I went to school? University of Illinois, okay, the Champaign-Urbana. So after he found the job I stayed with my grandmother and she was a widow and to do things around and keep you know, take care of her and be company for her and do odd jobs for her. And my brother and my dad went back, sold the house my sister was born in Riverside and arranged for a moving van to get all of our stuff and move to Urbana.
Speaker 2:So that was quite a summer. That sounds like a busy summer, very busy summer, yeah, and my sister was born August 19. And I think about two weeks later they were on the road again with a 58 Pontiac with no air, but every summer we came back in that car to visit the family in Illinois. Yeah, we'd leave at midnight to go across the Mojave Desert because it was a little bit cooler at night, and then by the time the sun came up we were in Arizona and then New Mexico. We'd stop in New Mexico at a motel, and then Tulsa, where my dad had a cousin, and then from Tulsa into southern Illinois the next day. So those were our summer trips and Route 66, those were when the interstates were just being built Right, they're still being built. So the trip was partially Route 66, partially the interstates and then partially detours.
Speaker 1:A lot of miles on that 58 Pontiac yeah, a lot of miles on the Pontiac.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was. We eventually got newer Pontiacs, but my dad really loved Pontiac. It sounds like it he really was a.
Speaker 1:Pontiac person. My dad was an Oldsmobile guy so. I can relate. So you all end up in Urbana in a brand new home and you head off to well, really head off to college, you just go to college, right.
Speaker 2:I stayed at home for two years and I was in the band there at the University of Illinois marching band, the concert band, what they call first and second regimental bands, very military-type bands. It was a male-only, male-only band. We did not have any female in our band at all, so no, co-ed band.
Speaker 2:That was not a co-ed band, for sure, no, no no, there were bands at that time that had females and we made fun of them. Yeah, but I was in the? Uvi marching band for three years and the highlight of my marching band career was in 1963, we won it all and we went to the Rose Bowl, went to the Rose Bowl and JFK was assassinated in November, and so they delayed our last game with MSU, and so was that between us and Michigan State as to who's who to go. Who's going to go the Rose Bowl. And, and fortunately, we went up to Michigan State on the train and I was in the pep band. I was in the pep band and that's when they had Bubba Smith playing. Yeah, but we had an even better player and that was Richard Dick Butkus. I think I've heard that name before yes Butkus.
Speaker 2:I think I've heard that name before yes Butkus. As the old saying goes, to win games requires a good offense, To win championships requires a good defense, and that's how we did it. Michigan State did not score at all on that game.
Speaker 1:We beat them like 15 to nothing. Well, as a Spartan fan, that's a sad day for me, but you must have been really excited.
Speaker 2:Well, we were excited because we were on their home turf, it was real grass, and at the end of the game the pep band went down to the field and we had a whole bunch of boosters behind us. Of course they had been drinking a lot and so they were really looped, but we marched across the field triumphantly and then back to the train and then back home. But you know it was, and we went, the band went out. We had our winter uniforms. We never had any lightweight uniforms, so when we were out we stayed at UCLA practicing for the parade and the game, and so when we stepped off the parade in the morning I think it was around 8 o'clock it was around 80 degrees and that's hot for Pasadena at that time, right, because it's usually a little bit chilly in the morning. It's a little bit chilly there in the right, and it does get cold in California during the wintertime. It's not like Florida, but it was warm that day and so we stepped up. It's five and a half miles, two and a half hours. Then we had a box lunch and then bussed over to the stadium and we played the Huskies and we beat them. So that's an amazing year for you. That was the highlight of my marching band career right there.
Speaker 2:But I had another year. I was in the marching band. Okay.
Speaker 2:But after that I transferred down to Southern Illinois and finished up at Southern Illinois. So what did you get your degree in? My degree is accounting finance. Okay.
Speaker 2:And I started in engineering at U of I. Your degree in my degree is accounting finance. Okay, I started in engineering at U of I but then they had a terrific way of vetting everybody. You got a pretty good idea. They didn't want to waste your time or their time. So I went into general studies and then the counselors kind of directed me toward the School of Business. So I wound up there.
Speaker 2:I wound up there so you graduated in 64? I graduated in 67. I lost some credits because I changed schools, yeah, but all of 1966, I went solid the whole year it's a summer school and because my deferment was for five years and I was afraid that I was going to be drafted and I wanted to serve my country in the way I wanted to serve it. So I sat down with Army Audit Agency and Air Force Audit Agency because they had a program that they will train you for six months. Then you are drafted, go in, do basic and they will attach you as a military auditor out of basic. That didn't happen. They couldn't get me attached to them, even though they had quite a pull Right. So they got me in the finance corps. Okay.
Speaker 2:They got me in the finance corps, but I did go through basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, missouri, at a pretty good time when it wasn't too hot it was in the fall.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this though so really for almost your whole life at this point, you've pretty much been very close to your family, very close, yes. And so you get on the bus I'm assuming to go to Fort Leonard Wood. What was it like when you stepped off that bus into basic training? What do you remember about that? How'd you feel?
Speaker 2:Well, I was feeling, you know what's going on. I didn't know exactly what it was going to be like. Nobody ever, you know. But everybody was good.
Speaker 2:I mean, I tell you, the drill instructors had a big job ahead of them because this was in Vietnam and there wasn't an all-volunteer army. It wasn't an all-volunteer army and so they had to train so many troops to go over there. And what a lot of people don't realize is just how many troops were there in Vietnam. And so everything was rush, rush, rush and you just had to, you know, go with it. And nobody really put up any fight at all because they saw the importance of training and getting ready for that. Not everybody who went through basic went to NAMM, but quite a few, quite a few, quite a few, but it was. You know, I was young and some of the recruits there were a little bit older and some were married, and so they're a little bit out of shape, and me, I was in pretty good shape then, especially for all the marching over to the rifle range for two weeks.
Speaker 1:Right, you had marching down.
Speaker 2:You know how to march. I knew how to march.
Speaker 1:I knew how to march this time I'm marching with an M14.
Speaker 2:Right, it's a little different, yeah, a little bit different. I wasn't introduced to the M16 until I was called up to go to Vietnam, but they did get me into the finance corps. So the finance corps is at Fort Benjamin Harrison, which is near Indianapolis, and that's where all the administration and military occupational specialties are. They have a lot of people from all branches that are going there, a male and female. The first time I ever saw a female Marine was at Fort Ben Harrison, and they have foreign officers there too. So I remember a guy named Kronauer who had a movie called Good Morning Vietnam. Oh, so you met him.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't meet him, but he went through Fort Ben Harrison for his MOS. But I learned later on about it when I saw the movie with Robin Williams. But that was an interesting movie and very true, because every morning in Vietnam when we were at breakfast, Armed Forces Radio came on and they'd always say Good morning Vietnam. And they'd always start off. All the other DJs after him pretty much used the same techniques, so he sort of started that?
Speaker 1:Yes, he started that. So how long were you at Fort Benjamin Harris that? Yes, he started that.
Speaker 2:So how long were you at Fort Benjamin Harris? I was at Ben Harris until, I think, around February of 68. Okay, and I was on orders. Here's the interesting part of my story. I was on orders to Korea. I could have gone to Korea, not thinking later on I would be levied to Vietnam, right?
Speaker 2:So I called the gentleman up in Chicago where I trained with Army Audit and said I'd like to stay stateside. Could you find me a stateside assignment? He said okay, could you find me a stateside assignment? He said, okay, I'll get back to you. And he got back to me and said I got one for you. You're going to be attached to, you're going to be working with a task force at the Army Tank Automotive Command in Warren, michigan. And I said, really, what's the mission there? He said your mission with the task force is going to clean up the books and records of this operation there, this tank production operation, because it's so screwed up that Army audit will not go in to do an audit. Wow, and there was 7,000 civilians that worked there at that time and Chrysler was the main contractor. I said really, wow, that's your tax dollars at work or not?
Speaker 1:Sounds like a lot of work to fix at work or?
Speaker 2:not Sounds like a lot of work to fix. And yes, there was a lot of transactions to go through. You had to go through quite a few transactions and see if everything is correct with each one of them. It almost seemed like an impossible task, but I was working with a group and but one of the an impossible task.
Speaker 2:But I was working with a group and but one of the female workers there at the plant was my future wife. Oh so if I had not made that call, if I had not made that call I, I had not made that call, our paths would never have crossed. So that was something that you wonder about. How did this happen? Everything happens for a reason, right, Everything happens for a reason. Everything happens for a reason. So I was levied to Vietnam. I went to the colonel and he said before you say anything, you know, my hands are tied, my hands are tied and you have to go.
Speaker 2:So basically, there was a problem with my wife future wife's mother and even though we were planning on getting married, after I came back we decided to elope, and so we did, because we couldn't trust her and my mom, my mother-in-law, would come between us. We felt that they would come between us, so we eloped and I took her to live with my grandmother, who's a widow, and that worked out. So she stayed there while you were in Illinois. She stayed there in southern Illinois, so she had to get used to. She stayed there in Southern Illinois, yeah, so she had to get used to the lifestyle down there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:In Southern Illinois, but that worked out.
Speaker 1:So when did you end up going to Vietnam?
Speaker 2:I was in Vietnam in September 68. Okay.
Speaker 2:And I went through the two-week in-country training and I was assigned to the 9th Infantry Division which was activated for it was deactivated after the Korean War but it was reactivated for the Vietnam War because they had a mission in the. It was working. They worked out of Saigon first, but then they were sent down to the delta near Canto and Mito, a brand new division headquarters. They had about 22,000 troops brand new division headquarters, they had about 22,000 troops. And so I did in-country training at the old camp which was quickly going back to jungle Right and there was about a dozen of us in a big leaky tent and I remember that, and sleeping on the floor and whatnot. But then we went down to the new camp, which didn't have any post, water or power at that time, and I was assigned to an administrative company down there and I and another guy was responsible for one of the most dangerous jobs at the camp, that's officers' pay. That could be a minefield, can't it Right?
Speaker 2:because you cannot scoop anybody's pay, especially an officer's pay. So we in-processed officers One day, in-processed about 25 doctors from Puerto Rico. I in-processed a full-blown colonel one day and went to see him. I had to go to him, obviously, but we also did other duties, like guard duty at the airstrip. I did a lot of guard duty at the airstrip and working in KP, because even though we had ladies from the village at the kitchen, we still had to pull KP.
Speaker 1:I think it's just a military thing. Right, it is. Wherever you end up you're peeling potatoes somewhere.
Speaker 2:My two grandsons both have been in the Army and back and they don't have KP anymore and they said well, that's all part of the adventure, that's all part of the good times. You know, to work in the kitchen, right for the one of the most meanest persons is a kitchen sergeant. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's one of the most thankless jobs in the military. You learn a lot from it though.
Speaker 2:Yep, Well, I did KP at basic training and you know you get up at about 3 in the morning and get over to the kitchen and they'll have you, maybe clean the grease or whatever. Right, A lot of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah you're a slave for a day, that's true. You're definitely a slave for a day, that's true. So, anyways, my experience at Dong Tam was not too bad at all. Not too bad at all. Not too bad at all, not too bad at all. A company area that one of the bravest people that we were that I ran across there were the Lerps Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol. They were in the company area right next to us and I went over there for movies and snacks quite a bit, and they would go out and do recon in full camo, head to toe, for about a week or so, and they would go right up into, even sometimes the middle of the enemy and do recon, never engaged unless they were engaged, brave, brave soldiers. It's a very dangerous job, very dangerous job, very dangerous job. Did you make a lot of friends when you were there? Yeah, I did, but we didn't connect afterwards though, but they made a lot of friends, yeah, Made a lot of friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, made a lot of friends.
Speaker 1:And how long were you there?
Speaker 2:We're there, for I was there nine months because I was there near the end of my two-year you know commitment and I did get early out to go to grad school, okay, so I didn't know about that and I learned about that Actually, shortly after I left. The 9th Infantry was disbanded and they started. When Nixon made a promise to take the troops, to start bringing the troops down, he was right on and he fulfilled that promise and so that's why I voted for him, Because there was a half a million boots on the ground when I was there. That's a hard number to get your arms around. Over 500,000 troops, that's a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people. And there were a lot more troops involved with that and wounded and deaths than all the other conflicts that we've had since then combined. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a huge number, huge, huge, huge number. So they started.
Speaker 2:So I was able to come back in June 3rd 1969, and took the long airplane ride from Kyoto, japan. We went from Benoit to Kyoto, japan, and Kyoto, japan, to Traverse Air Force Base. It was a 10-hour flight with 250, and you go from the jungle right and then cabin air, and all for 10 hours. A lot of us were sick when we got to Traverse, but then we had to go out process at Oakland, oakland Army Base and it took me a whole day because I was coming back in country and then leaving the service, and so around midnight that day I finally got onto a bus and went down to Fresno to meet my family. My mom and dad, wife and little sister came to meet me, and then I had an aunt and uncle that he was an Orange Grove. He had an Orange Grove just north of Visalia, and so they all came to meet me. How did it feel to be home? It felt great to be home. Oh, it felt terrific to be home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Did you have any trouble adjusting to being back, or any of that? Or was it just kind of you just got home being back, or any of that? Or was it just kind of you just got home?
Speaker 2:and Well, one of the good things is that I was so screwed up inside I guess that I loved the cigarettes. You know cigarettes back then it was 35 cents a pack at the PX and of course I did a lot of smoking, especially over there. But when I came back and lit up I got sick and eventually stopped altogether. So I because my dad was a lifetime smoker and he died of lung cancer but he didn't get that till the 80s yeah, but so I was. I was happy that I was able to give that up, because it's so hard for people to quit smoking it is it is.
Speaker 1:It's a. That's a hard addiction to kick. So you come back home and you were accepted to grad school. So where was grad school at? At Southern Illinois, literally coming right back home.
Speaker 2:I was coming right back home to my alma mater and I had a summer job that summer cleaning the dorms at Thompson Point. And what I didn't realize until I came back to campus just recently, after I got married you know, after my wife passed away I met a wonderful lady online and we have been married now for two years, three months, yes. And shortly after we got married here in Brighton at St Mary Magdalene Church, we took a trip to meet my siblings and they took me to Southern Illinois again and I took her on campus, which, of course, I hardly recognized because of all the changes, right, but one thing that didn't change was Thompson Point dorms. There were about 12 dorms there and they're exactly like they were when I graduated in 1967. So but in 69, when I came back from Vietnam, I was working for a dollar an hour cleaning the dorms, cleaning the dorms, so. But then, after that summer, I started grad school. So what were you?
Speaker 1:getting your master's degree in. But then after that summer I started grad school.
Speaker 2:So what were you getting your master's degree in? It would be an MBA Master's in Business Administration.
Speaker 2:But it was hard for me to get back in the swing of things in school and so instead of full-time, I went part--time and I started working for on-campus housing While I was a student there. I was a student worker for on-campus housing at Thompson Point dorms, so I was working for a full. Then I became a full-time employee for the university and at that time my uncle, who had been a coach since the 40s, is now athletic director, so I got to work with him. His name is Glenn Abe Martin Okay, glenn Abe Martin and the baseball field. See, he started the baseball program there at Southern and the baseball field is named after him in memory of him. In memory of him.
Speaker 2:But while I was there, army Audit Agency was on campus recruiting. So I stopped by to say hello, because you know, this has kind of come full circle. Right, I came full circle, yeah. So I found out from them that they were recruiting not just locally but for the West Coast, and I said, really, and the entire West Coast, and the headquarters was in Redwood City, california, up by San Francisco, and they also had area offices in El Paso and Denver and Seattle. And one thing led to another and I accepted, I signed up to go back to them. I signed up to go back to them because I never was attached to them, got the training for the six months there out of Chicago, and so I went home and told my wife, guess what? We're going to California. She said great, great. She didn't have any problem with it at all because she was not exactly that happy. She was born and raised in Detroit and she knew that world, that culture, a little bit different culture down in southern Illinois.
Speaker 2:A little bit different, and the weather's not exactly that great either, but so off we went to California.
Speaker 1:So when you're part of Army Audit, are you a?
Speaker 2:civilian. I'm a civilian right, I was a GS-9. Okay, I was a GS-9. And if I would have stayed with them I could have gone up to maybe 11 or 12, up to that level. But I was under contract with them for two years. Okay, that level, but I was under contract with them for two years. They moved us to California and I worked for them for two years and then after that I was tired of being on the road because they covered the entire West, everything West of the Mississippi and Alaska.
Speaker 1:So if you're going to go audit, you had to go somewhere to do that.
Speaker 2:You had to. Yes, right, and there was mission-oriented audits. At that time they changed to army-wide or worldwide audits, just auditing certain functions, but back then it was a mission-oriented audit. So when we audited Fort Ord, which is near Monterey, it was for two months. When we audited an Army depot in Tuala, utah, it was for like two months, and so those are the audits that we audited the Army Oakland Army base, that was six months, but that was right. After I went to a couple-week training there in California but Redwood City was the headquarters of the Western area and I thought I'd be off to wherever right afterwards, but it happened to be six months in Oakland.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I was a little disappointed because I wanted to go to the other places, so I had to commute up to Oakland for six months. But yeah, those were the audits I was on and I audited the Fifth Army headquarters up in San Francisco, letterman General Hospital, which is right next door up there in San Francisco. And I think one of the last audits I was on was the Oregon National Guard. Because we audited the Oregon National Guard Because, after Fort Ord, I was doing audits on weapons accounting and internal control over weapons and ammunition. A lot of armories were being broken into back in those days and so we had to tighten up internal controls and everything over that. So Oregon was a beautiful place. I was in a lot of different armories up and down that state, that state. But then after that two years we decided well, it's time to buy a house, start a family and get into debt. Yes, that's very important, very important. That's the American way, right? So where did you go? I went to work for the state of California for two years Okay, sort of like a transition job and we settled in. We had an apartment in San Mateo and I was a business tax auditor for the Board of Equalization. Board of Equalization is one of the largest government entities in California because part of it is business taxes, which is sales and use and property taxes. But I was a business tax auditor for San Mateo County, but after that I switched to retail and then eventually got into manufacturing and started grad school again at San Jose State University.
Speaker 2:Okay, yep, but I wound up being 18 years in the San Francisco Bay Area. Oh, okay, so you stayed there for a while, we stayed there, we stayed there for a while. I had two daughters, one born in 72. And in Hayward, california, she was born. And then my youngest daughter, debbie, was born in San Jose in 79. So they were like seven years apart. It was difficult for my wife to have any more kids after that, so it was a miscarriage in between. Okay, but after a while we got homesick for back here and I decided to. I was looking for a job back here from California, but it's almost impossible to find new jobs. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So we just sold the last house. We lived in three different homes in 16 years, and so the real estate market there in California is just booming. Yes, you probably didn't have any problems selling your homes. No, I didn't have any problem at all. I didn't have to worry about staging it or marketing it, just put out a for sale sign and boom, someone would buy it. Someone would buy it. Yeah, someone would buy it. So I took the appreciation from the house and moved us back in 88.
Speaker 1:Okay, where did you end up in 88?
Speaker 2:In 88, we stayed with in-laws for a while, uh-huh, but then we wound up renting a house in Canton. Okay. And my oldest daughter graduated from high school in Plymouth Canton High School but I had a job as a plant controller at a chemical plant in Riverview, right next to Wyandotte. It's not there anymore, but it was the big one and they had about 50 acres, 12 processes and employed about 250 people. So it was a big plant.
Speaker 1:And how long were you there?
Speaker 2:I was there until for about five years and then I moved on to be a controller at another company, cux Graphic Systems, which was. They were based in the western part of Detroit on Burt Road and I worked there as a controller until they basically went out of business. Went out of business because Amoco and BP were our biggest customers and they merged and that put a big constraint because it took them three years to come up with a new image and we were in the sign business. We were in the sign and imaging business, sign material, so I had to leave from there. I was laid off from there because the company was going down and then I found part-time jobs. And then I found part-time jobs and eventually it was in 1964 that we sold our house in Allen Park and I moved to Dundee for a year and then found another controlling job in Lansing. Okay.
Speaker 2:Found another job in Lansing.
Speaker 2:Okay, found another job in Lansing, so that's what took me to Lansing was a job with a mechanical contractor, but by that time that was laid off from there. When they did an organizational change and brought in a general manager who had an accounting background, then I was out of it Right, because he could do both yeah, he could do being general manager and the finance and accounting. So I was sort of winding down. And from that point I went to work for a social service agency and for a while, and then but in 08, my, my wife, got sick and she was just disabled for 12 years and I took care of her and eventually I started working part-time.
Speaker 2:So the way I approached retirement was just I took Social Security early and then you can only earn so much, and then I was sort of working part-time. In my last six or seven years I was working mainly part-time, but then on January 1st, at the age of 77, 2022, I retired. Wow, because at that time I had met Joan and we were preparing the house for sale and we were preparing for a wedding in June. So I was able to sell my house and my wife passed away in March 9, 2020, not from COVID.
Speaker 1:Right, what was her illness? If you don't mind my asking.
Speaker 2:Well, she had a variety of medical issues. One was she was an insulin-dependent diabetic and then, in a way, she had collapsed. She got Guillain-Barre, which is a neurological condition, right Guillain-Barre which is a neurological condition and it just took six months of three times a week physical therapy for her to get back and learning how to dress, take care of you know, walk function. But she was saved from being permanently paralyzed because they got it diagnosed fast enough that she got infusions of antibodies. Her antibodies couldn't fight against this.
Speaker 2:It was caused by a virus, probably from a flu shot that's what the neurologist suspected and her antibodies just couldn't fight against it. So she had infusions of antibodies five in the hospital and two afterwards, but then all the physical therapy, but then she contracted CLL, which is leukemia, and that's what finally killed her was the leukemia. It came back. Well, it got stronger and stronger and she was in the hospital for two weeks, about seven transfusions which caused blood clots, which caused major stroke, two major strokes. So if you go back to leukemia, that's what. That was the cause, even though the strokes are on the death certificate. Right, right, yeah, how long were you married? 51 years, that's a long time. It's a long time. It doesn't seem that long, no, but you lived quite a life for that. 51 years, for 51 years, yes.
Speaker 1:And then what about your daughters? What do they do?
Speaker 2:Well, my oldest daughter is a mortgage banker for John Adams Mortgage Company out of Southfield and they're owned by Real Estate One, so Real Estate One and them they work together. She's working out of her house mostly. She lives in Westland. Ever since COVID more and more people are working out of their homes, so she's working out of her home. She goes into the office for meetings, but most of the time she's working out of her home. Then my youngest daughter is working in medical records. She has an associate's degree in medical billing and coding and so she uses that education to take care of all the medical records for about 20 cardiologists, take care of all the medical records for about 20 cardiologists, and she's working with the hospital the new hospital in East Lansing, the McLaren, very familiar with that Right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she thought they would transfer her department to the hospital, but she's not working there. She's working in another place in East Lansing. But she is working in cooperation with the hospital. Okay, she communicates with all the cardiologists and everything. So she and another person that helps her in the medical records.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like both kids took a little bit of what you do. Mm-hmm. Took a little bit after you then.
Speaker 2:So I guess it gets a part of my DNA, because I like working with numbers, I was very good in math and all that.
Speaker 2:In high school I was kind of a dork but because I was more concerned with my education, I really loved math yeah, Really loved math. But I never wanted to be a math teacher because I saw how much of a struggle it was for my parents being teachers and I didn't think I would be that great of a teacher. But I was a mentor to a lot of people that worked for me. I was a controller for a lot of different manufacturing companies over the years and had a team of people that that worked for me and I saw a Mentored them.
Speaker 1:So you were a teacher of sort. I was a teacher of sorts. Yes, yeah, yep. So you know what year did you lose your?
Speaker 2:wife, that was 2020. Okay, in March 9, and just as Colvard was beginning, yeah to to really the the lockdown on everything, everything just became a lockdown right before the world shut down is what we say yeah, right the world was shutting down and, uh, it was a a pretty bad time, yeah, to have that happen. Because a pretty bad time to have that happen? Because I was pretty much shut in, right.
Speaker 1:Now you're really alone, right, because you don't have your wife and you really can't go and do things either.
Speaker 2:No, at that time. Yeah, so it was.
Speaker 1:I was looking for somebody, so let's talk about that, because we can't see her on camera and she hasn't really talked a lot, so tell me what happened. You said, you met somebody online but there's more to this story than just that right Well yes, there is.
Speaker 2:She and I both signed up on Catholicolicmatchcom Because, if anybody I was looking for, my number one reason, the number one aspect of a spouse, was faith, strong faith, and so that's why I looked in this versus Matchcom or eHarmony Right. And I did date a lady down in Ohio, but nothing was going there. And then my subscription ran out and I thought I was going to be cut off. But I saw that I wasn't. And then I saw this lady from Brighton pop up on the screen and her name was Joan, and I especially saw a picture of her on a John Deere tractor and I said I've got to meet this lady. I've got to meet this lady. Yeah, I've got to meet this lady. And so I think she said something to me. First I wrote you, she wrote me first, and then I wrote her back and then I said you know, I think I'm going to be cut off any time now. So I sent her my phone number and my email address.
Speaker 2:And we connected, and we connected and we set up a meeting which was halfway between Brighton and Lansing, in Fowlerville. So we met at Fowlerville Farms for lunch and it turned out to be a three-hour lunch.
Speaker 1:It's great food there too, by the way. Oh, yes, it is great food there.
Speaker 2:It's very good food. So we had our lunch and we talked and talked and we talked and talked and I really felt something from that first time and I think that was on a Thursday, it was November the 4th, and that will always be, you know, an important date. Yeah, An important date, Not just election day. Be an important date, An important date, Not just election day, but an important day in our lives. And then the next date was a Saturday mass at St Mary Magdalene here in town, Brighton Township, on 023. And Magdalene here in town, Brighton Township, on 023.
Speaker 2:And while we were there, just around the corner, inside the church, walked a familiar face. It was Father Paul Erickson and he was at St George in Lansing, which was my parish, and I knew him right out of seminary. I knew him right out of seminary. He's recognizable because he has a big bushy beard, Big bushy beard. And I said Father Paul, what are you doing here? And he says, well, I work here. I said, oh, yes, that work here. I said, oh yes, that's right, I see, I see you're working, yes, and so that was interesting. But but three weeks after we started dating, I asked her to marry me. What did I say and she said what'd you say? And she said what did you say? And then I said I asked you to marry me. And she said yes, yes, and so from that point on we planned the wedding. But we had to go through the same marriage prep as young kids. But it was good because we needed to know more about each other. We hadn't really, we just scratched the surface of getting to know each other.
Speaker 1:No sense of wasting time, though, right.
Speaker 2:No, well, when you're, time matters and you have to really, really, you know, jump on the opportunities when you see them. So I truly believe that something drew me and it was probably the Holy Spirit drew me there to get down on my knees and ask her to marry me. How about the list? Yeah, huh, how about the list? Oh yeah, she had also, before this she had discussed showed me a list of what would be her perfect spouse, perfect mate, of what would be her perfect spouse, perfect mate, and everything on that list I filled. You checked all the boxes, I checked all the boxes, I checked all the boxes. And so I think that was another thing, another item right there, that made me.
Speaker 1:Well, you knew that she wasn't just looking for a guy to marry, she was looking for the right guy to marry, right guy, the right guy. Very important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the right person, a person who had is helping people. I was a member of Knights of Columbus and doing a lot of charity work. I took care of my wife for 12 years and was faithful in doing that. So I had a strong faith and I served in the military. I served my country. I felt very strong about it. I'm very patriotic. I'm in the fourth. I served my country. I felt very strong about it. I'm very patriotic. I'm in the fourth degree, the patriotic degree of Knights of Columbus. I was in the Honor Guard for 20 years Old regalia not the new regalia, but still.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:One of the items on the list was I want someone who loves our country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, there you go. That is someone who loves this country. For sure I do, so when were you married?
Speaker 2:We were married June 25, 2022. Wow, so it was two years, three months and one day.
Speaker 1:But like we said I think we said this before we started recording who's counting.
Speaker 2:Who's?
Speaker 1:counting right. Every day is a blessing. So you have lived quite a life and you've done a lot of things over your lifetime, including something that a lot of people don't get in their lifetime, and that is to find two people that you love enough to share your life with. Yeah, that's, that's quite a blessing, and as we start to close out our conversation today, you know people will be listening to this story I'm hoping, 100 years from now and so when they're listening to that story?
Speaker 2:what would you like them to take away from this conversation today? Well, what I wrote it down here is that the importance of God and the Holy Spirit in leading your life. Always be aware of their presence, listening to that small voice to direct your life, to keep you on the right path to holiness, on your way to heaven. Know that you are always a work in process and always continue to make progress. Never, ever, give in to the temptations of this secular world. In this way, you will not only assure your salvation, but you will be a strong influence on many others in your life your family, friends and many other others you come in contact with throughout your whole life. And so that's my message. There's many ways I could have gone a different direction. Right, but you have to work at it every day. You've got to work at it every day. You've got to work at it every day. You just can't say, well, I'm fine now, so I just. But every day you know to love God and love your neighbor as yourself, the two greatest commandments, and I try to live my life that way, and Joan is a blessing in my life to keep me on that path. So that's it.
Speaker 2:Do you want to mention about turning Catholic. Well, yeah, I'm a convert and I converted to the Catholic Church in August of 1966, while I was still in college. I had a roommate who was Lebanese-American and Catholic and he led me to the church. He started attending Mass and going to Newman Center and that's how I was led to the Catholic Church and that's made all the difference. It sounds like it's made all the difference, and I didn't know that much when I turned Catholic about the Catholic Church, but I knew enough and I was not happy with the Protestant church that I belonged to.
Speaker 2:So and my family when I turned Catholic had no problem at all. There wasn't any, you know, big to-do about it. I'm an adult and I chose what I think was the right path for me and it was the worship that really drove me. It was just a beautiful, beautiful church that Christ established and it still is going. Established and it still is going. There's been a lot of ups and downs, but I'm very happy where I am and we have as soon as we have more time, we're going to be more useful as far as helping people and doing outreach work.
Speaker 1:Well, great Yep, well, and thank you for meeting me here today and for sharing your story with everyone. It's been a pleasure to get to know you and to learn more about you. Thank you, thank you.
