Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
In a world where storytelling has been our link to the past since the days of cave drawings, there exists a timeless tradition. It's the art of passing down knowledge, and for Military Veterans, it's a crucial piece of their legacy. Join us on the Veterans Archives Podcast, where we dive deep into the heartwarming and awe-inspiring stories of those who served, no matter when or where.
Here, Veterans get the chance to be the authors of their own narratives. Through guided interviews in a relaxed and safe environment, they paint their experiences with their own words and unique voices. The result? A memory card in a presentation box, a precious gift they can share however they please.
But that's not all. These stories find a secure home in our archive, a treasure chest of experiences for future generations to explore. The best part? It's all a gift to the Veteran – our way of saying thank you for their service.
Tune in to the Veterans Archives Podcast, where history, heroism, and heartwarming tales come to life.
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Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
Stories of Sacrifice and Camaraderie from Robert Bright
What does it mean to serve and sacrifice? Robert Brite, a veteran with a remarkable story, takes us through his life journey, revealing the profound experiences that shaped him. From his unique upbringing on Long Island under the care of an adoptive father who welcomed children from diverse backgrounds, to his formative years in the JROTC program, Robert's path was always leading towards a life dedicated to service. He takes us back to his time at Fort Richardson, Alaska, where his military career began and where he met his future wife, sharing humorous anecdotes about their first encounter and the bonds forged during those early days in the Army.
Transitioning from military life to civilian life and back again, Robert opens up about the challenges and unexpected twists his life took post-September 11th. The episode covers his experiences at Fort Benning, his deployment to Iraq, and the intense camaraderie and sacrifices shared with fellow soldiers, including Pat Tillman. Through stories of long patrols and tense escort missions, listeners gain insight into the emotional toll of military life and the evolving duty rotations that define it. Robert's reflections capture the complex emotions tied to returning to civilian life, the burden of leadership, and the frustrations with political decisions that shaped pivotal events such as the battles of Fallujah and the Abu Ghraib scandal.
Finally, Robert discusses the often-overlooked challenges veterans face when reintegrating into civilian society, underscoring the importance of community support, especially through veteran organizations like the American Legion. As he shares his journey into retirement, Robert emphasizes the enduring pride and camaraderie that come from military service, highlighting his roles in supporting fellow veterans and educating civilians about the sacrifices made by the 1%. This heartfelt discussion reminds us of the unique brotherhood shared among those who serve and reinforces the lasting impact of their contributions on the freedoms we enjoy today.
Today is January 23rd 2025. We are here today at the American Legion in Howell, post-141, with Robert Bright. How are you doing today, robert?
Speaker 2:Good, how's it?
Speaker 1:going. You're good. So tell me a little bit about where you came from, where you were born and kind of like your childhood upbringing right.
Speaker 2:So, uh, I come from new york, uh, long island, um, my um, mom and dad, uh, my mother and father split up when I was really young and uh, so, um, I had an adoptive dad, uh who, um, you know, raised me and, uh, a whole bunch of other kids it was about 20 of us give or take a little bit. So he was a minister and you know, they brought in, he took in everybody that was unwanted, so black kids, white kids, puerto Rican kids, all of them, all you know, raised under the same roof, with the same rules, the same everything. So it was kind of unique childhood, you know, definitely. You know poor well, I wouldn't say poor, you know we were. We were rich in interaction, but as far as you know, having what other kids had, we didn't have that. So definitely on the lower end as far as income and stuff, but it was a good childhood. Where was?
Speaker 1:this in New York, Lindenhurst, right on Long Island. So as you grew up, what high school did you go to and did you play any sports?
Speaker 2:So I went to Lindenhurst High School. I played lacrosse while I was there, so it was pretty good. I was in the ROTC program as well.
Speaker 1:The JROTC, yep, marine Corps, marine Corps, marine Corps. So did you know then that you wanted to join the military? I did.
Speaker 2:I knew I wasn't joining the Marines, but I did have every intention on joining the Army.
Speaker 1:for sure, why not the Marines? So?
Speaker 2:you know I wanted to go into the infantry, I wanted to be airborne and the Marine Corps had limited access to those type of things so they couldn't guarantee you to be a paratrooper. That was out, you know, right out. It wasn't an option out of the gate. So you know, the Marine Corps was not going to be my thing.
Speaker 1:So when you decided that you wanted to join the Army, tell me a little bit about how that happened.
Speaker 2:So I graduated in 85 and in 1990 Kuwait I should say Iraq had invaded Kuwait and President Bush had put out a call for anyone that was able to serve to step up. We were at the time going against the fifth largest military on the planet and they assumed that it would be relatively long and drawn out. So I joined and I left for basic training in November of 1990. And they had canceled Exodus that year. So there was no Exodus because they were getting ready to gear up for the invasion, kick the Iraqis out of Kuwait and whatnot, and come January, I mean, it was over in four days and that was it. I was stuck for four years for something that lasted four days.
Speaker 1:So you knew you wanted to be infantry and airborne. And tell me, do you have any experience doing that that you would like to talk about?
Speaker 2:so no, there was nothing out there other than, um, you know, the uh, greatest stories that you read, and I read, I'm an avid reader. So everything that you read, or or the greatest events, it was always accomplished by the infantry. Every once in a while I'll throw some tankers in there. You know, patton 2nd Armored Division goes up there and bails out the 101st during the Battle of the Bulge, but it's not ordinary. You know, most of the time everything is done on the backs of the infantry. So you know, if you're going to do something, go all the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. So you were stationed. Your first duty station was where Fort Richardson, Alaska.
Speaker 2:Fort Richardson, Alaska, oh, and can you tell me anything cool that happened while you were there? So while I was there I was in the Long Range Surveillance Detachment. It's a large detachment. They work directly for the divisions.
Speaker 2:We were attached to an MI battalion so right off the bat that was awesome because you know we're a whole, you know detachment of, you know infantry or commo guys and they're assigned to an MI battalion. So you have, you know you're assigned with females. That's out of the ordinary for anybody in combat arms. And then you know, also, being in that unit, we got through a lot of different schools. So you know I did you know Air Force schools, I did some Navy schools, I did the Marine Corps, recon Corps, so I got to do a whole bunch of things that were definitely out of the ordinary. And you know your average. You know your average infantryman in a line unit wouldn't have had access to those things. So it was like a good place to be and I met my wife there. She was attached to that MI battalion, so it worked out pretty well.
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit more about, like, how you met your wife. What's the story? Did you see her at a bar?
Speaker 2:So no, I met her in the barracks. Okay, so today, you know this would be considered bad. You know, if anybody looks at it in history, if anybody looks at this through the lens of today versus historically, it would be, you know. But I walked in and she was laying on her bunk brand new, just got to Alaska. And what was her rank? She to Alaska.
Speaker 1:What was her rank? She was private.
Speaker 2:What was your rank? I was an E4. E4? Yeah. So she was laying on her bed there and I actually slapped her on her behind and said I'm going to marry you.
Speaker 1:The first time you met her? First time, first time, yeah. And what did she say when you did that?
Speaker 2:She didn't say anything, but she did tell her roommate that guy is disgusting and there's no way I will ever date him. Oh really Right. And then she was kind of being harassed a little bit by a supply guy that was just inflating his resume and stuff like that and basically, well, I'm airborne as well and I could be with these guys, but I choose not to and I don't wear any of my stuff. So he was really really like laying it down hard on her and she had, you know, basically asked for a little assistance, so I drug him out of there and after that it was on, you know, no problem.
Speaker 1:And you guys have been married for how long now? 31 years tomorrow, 31 years tomorrow. Yeah, well, for how long now? 31 years tomorrow, 31 years tomorrow. Yeah, well, happy anniversary tomorrow so you were.
Speaker 2:You were in alaska, for from what year to what year?
Speaker 1:uh 91 to 94.
Speaker 2:Okay then 94. I went down to uh fort hood. I was stationed with 1st Cav and she was over in the 2nd Armored Division.
Speaker 1:So we were both down at Hood together. Okay, so when you re-enlisted, did they give you an option to where you went?
Speaker 2:They did. We did a joint domicile. I re-enlisted, she did not. So they were getting ready to close. They were closing the 6th Infantry Division, basically shutting it down. It was one of the divisions that hit that BRAC. She had to go anyway. Her MOS was no longer going to be up at Fort Richardson so she was leaving regardless. And then I re-enlisted for Fort Hood.
Speaker 1:So when you got to Fort Hood you went from very cold to very hot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we left Alaska in June and in Whitehorse, Canada, we drove the Alcan. It was snowing and it was snowing. So we got to Fort Hood within the same month, in June, and it was 105 degrees. So we spent that first summer dying. It was rough.
Speaker 1:I bet. And when you were there, your MOS was still 11 Bravo. It was 11 Mike, 11 Mike Yep. And what's the difference between 11 Bravo, still 11 Bravo. It was 11 Mike, 11 Mike Yep.
Speaker 2:And what's the difference between 11 Bravo and 11 Mike? One's light, the other one is mechanized. So they've since done away with the 11 Mike MOS, but at the time it was a thing. So mechanized infantry.
Speaker 1:And what did you? Do you remember what you worked on? Like what's the vehicle? It was Bradley's, Bradley's. I was on a Bradley.
Speaker 2:Yep, I went down there. I started off as a dismount and, you know, I was able to show my platoon sergeant, I had some mechanical aptitude, so I ended up being a gunner and then, you know, eventually before I left, you know a Bradley commander. So I was in the right seat, so it was good. It was a good assignment.
Speaker 1:So the weapons that you used in Fort Richardson were.
Speaker 2:It was just light infantry. So M16. M16. That's it. Machine gun, no, no, no. The mission up there was to observe and not get compromised. So it was a passive mission, basically of just reconnaissance, where you go to the line units and their mission is to destroy the enemy. So different.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what weapon systems did you use when you were at so at.
Speaker 2:Hood, we had the M16, and of course I had the Bradley, which was a 25-millimeter chain gun. I had the coax machine gun, which is the uh. It replaced the M60 uh, so the uh 240. I had tow missiles on that thing, so it was. It was pretty badass.
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit more about Fort Irwin.
Speaker 2:So Fort Irwin is like the armpit of the army. It is one of the worst places to go. It's in Barstow, california. There's nothing out there. When you get there, you go out into the box. So you're basically on mission. You're either prepping for the mission you're on mission, which is just an evaluation of your ability to operate as a unit, or you're cleaning up their crappy ass vehicles, making them better than they were when you got them and turning them back in. So I found it to be less than productive. And one of the reasons I'm so harsh on NTC is at Fort Hood the 2nd Armored Division was getting ready to close, so the 1st Cav picked up their rotations to NTC. So in the two years I was at Fort Hood I did five NTC rotations. That's a lot. It's a lot. How long were each rotation? So you're a month on the ground in Fort Irwin, yeah, and it was like dismal. So absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you do Fort.
Speaker 2:Polk at all. I did Fort Polk when I was light, so yeah, and actually I did Fort Chaffee. It was prior, it was JRTC, and then they moved it over to Fort Polk, so those were also, you know, crappy places, but they weren't as dismal as NTC.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so I see you have the tattoo of Fort Hood, the Cav yeah, cav tattoo. Do you have any other tattoos that represent anything?
Speaker 2:I've got the Airborne, whole Airborne thing Car Troopers, you know the infantry down here. So I've got a couple things here and there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the shield?
Speaker 2:that's st Michael patrons seat of paratroopers.
Speaker 1:So the last supper going on, I got a little bit of everything okay nice, so you're at at Fort Hood, and at what point do what happens when you, when you leave there, like well.
Speaker 2:so, um, you know, we ended up having our first child at Fort Hood, you know, and uh, we were getting ready to do a Kuwait rotation. So it was like, uh, let's say it was a second one for the brigade and uh, I was not going, so it was ETSing while they were prepping to go or extend and go with them. So I just ETSed. We came back to Michigan and I got a job with the phone company. It was a pretty good gig. My wife got a job with the phone company, so we were both working for, you know, I was working for Western Electric or Lucent, formerly AT&T, and she was at AT&T. So it was pretty good, not too bad.
Speaker 1:Did you reenlist into the reserves or anything like that? No, no, okay, so you got completely out.
Speaker 2:I was out, I was IRR for two years and then that was it Done.
Speaker 1:So what made you decide to get completely out?
Speaker 2:You know. So I either do something all the way or not, and my patience with doing things part-time came later in life. But you know that getting out at the time was the thing to do I was done, I was just done. So you know, uh, getting out was at the time, was was the thing to do, I was done, I was just done. So you know, I was moving on to something else, you know. And then, uh, then september 11th happened and yeah, yeah, things changed after that. So what?
Speaker 1:what was your feeling when you got out, like how did it?
Speaker 2:felt great. I was like hell, yeah I, I uh thought maybe I'd smoke some weed. Didn't like it, so quit that real quick. And uh, you know, uh, just, uh, yeah, just, it was great. It was great being able to grow facial hair, not having to worry about you know, uh, um, mandatory, stuck on a job. If I didn't like something, I didn't have to do it, quit, move on. So there's a certain freedom that you get that you don't realize and you don't have in the military. I mean, if somebody wants you to shovel shit, you're going to go shovel shit and that's just how it goes. And I don't know if you're supposed to do profanity on these tapes, but at the end of the day, if your civilian job, you know, tells you to shovel shit, you can tell them I'm not doing that and I'm done.
Speaker 1:Starting my contract.
Speaker 2:That's right, you know. So you know, my first job actually leaving the you know Army was working in an auto parts store. It was just temporary until I got into the phone company and somebody threw up in the vestibule, entering the building, and my boss was like you need to go clean that up and I was like you need to go F yourself and that was my last day in the auto store. So you know, and that freedom, that ability to do this, you don't have that in the military. So it's one of the things that you know. It's kind of a good feeling to be able to walk away from something, but you're also not part of anything either. Yeah, absolutely. So that camaraderie that you know, having that group, your gang, that's gone. Now you're just, you know it's you and your spouse and your family and you're on your own.
Speaker 1:You're not under the umbrella of yeah yeah. So you were a civilian. You had a break in service. From what year to what year? From 96 to 2001. Okay so, in 2001, what happened? September 11th happened. Okay so, september 11th happened and then, within the next couple of days, I was back in. So tell me a little bit how that happened. Tell me a little about the timeline.
Speaker 2:I went down to the recruiting station and I told them you know, I want back in. They were like, okay, we'll take you back as an E5. I was like, done, and you got out as a as an E5. Okay. So I was E5 P exiting. I would have picked up E6 in, I think, september of 96 and I separated in November of 96. So I just didn't have enough time to keep it, which sucks, but it is what it is. I could have kept it if I extended and went to Kuwait. That wasn't happening either.
Speaker 1:Can I understand that at that point you had one child?
Speaker 2:By September 11th. I had two. Okay, yeah, so I had two.
Speaker 1:So you have two kids and September 11th you go in, you join as an E5, what MOS 11? Bravo 11.
Speaker 2:Bravo. They made a paperwork mistake. They made me an 11 Charlie somehow. Don't ask me how that's. A mortarman never went to the school, had nothing to do with mortars. I had never even seen mortars fired up to that point, but somehow they made me an 11 Charlie coming back in. So it was bizarre.
Speaker 1:And what happened? Tell me a little bit about what happened after that.
Speaker 2:So I went to the unit over in Fraser. From there I was activated, I was done at Fort Benning. I actually got to train Pat Tillman, believe it or not, on commo tasks, skill level one stuff down at Fort Benning, because we were assigned to the training brigade down there, I mean we were instructors so and after September 11th they were pulling a lot of those guys to fill active duty positions somewhere. So we kind of backfilled those guys for man a year or so and then I was transferred over to the 81st BCT, which was a guard unit and that was to backfill. I think they were sitting at 60% strength somewhere in that range and I can't remember the numbers, so it may be skewed a little bit, but regardless, and that was full-time, that was mobilized or active as well. And then I ended up being augmented to the 1st Cavalry Division with the 1st Caval cavalry division for my deployment to Iraq. Did that till 2005?
Speaker 1:Where'd you go in?
Speaker 2:Iraq, iraq. I was in the northern portion of Baghdad so, and I was up in anaconda as well, a little bit up at Orion Shit. So If we weren't, if we weren't at our regular base camp, then I was traveling the country basically doing. We did like a week of QRF, a week of patrols and then a week of what they consider downtime was EOD escort, which really wasn't downtime. It was kind of driving around the countryside hoping not to get blown up but EOD's not a, and then hoping not to get blown up, oof, but EOD is not a. And then and I got to go back a little bit because that started after when we first got there, we were doing you know, 18-hour patrols, for you know, 18 hours, 18 hours on, I mean it was like exhausting. And then, you know, we had a couple of casualties and they scaled us down to 12 hours on and 24 off, and that's when we went into that QRF rotation patrols and then you know escort duty. So you know, and the QRF was probably the best duty, that was kind of you know you're hanging out and you only respond if something went awry On the QRF.
Speaker 2:I actually got to experience a bunch of other units. We went out and did a QRF for the combat engineers for the Air Force, the Red Horse guys. They were hemmed up on sword and tampa. We got to go out there for that. Just a bunch of convoys would come under fire somewhere or they'd get hemmed up somewhere and we'd go out and react. So going out like that, you're already prepared. It's not like you're rolling out the gate prepared for the fight. And so your mindset's a little bit different, different. It's a little bit easier than reacting to contact, which you know is I'm not gonna say it's harder to deal with. I'm gonna say that reacting to contact as a certain amount of stress because you'll go out on patrols for two months and have nothing and then something goes awry. So you're a little bit complacent. And now, all of a sudden, you're dealing with the unexpected. Where QLRF, you're dealing with the expected. You know you're going out there. You know you're going out to either secure something or you're entering the fight. So it's just a little bit different.
Speaker 1:Did you have anyone during that deployment that was your mentor or your mentee that you'd like to talk about?
Speaker 2:So you know, I mean I had a lot of great guys, you know, and the leadership was good, you know, leadership was exceptional. I think that I don't know, you know, I look back and I still talk to you know a lot of the guys that I, you know, patrolled with or actively participated with during that year I'm not saying anybody, I don't know if there was any mentors or mentees. I think that when we went to Iraq, there was limited combat experience and I can't think of a single guy that had been in that situation, even if they were in Desert Storm. I mean, there was no real combat in Desert Storm. So that was a first for all of us. You know, brigade commander, battalion commander, all these guys. It was a first. So, you know, we basically learned together. We learned to react together, lessons learned together, everything was done as a team and in April of 2004, when shit really turned sideways for us, I think that so, from the emotional, the emotional downturn, from losing guys, to picking yourself back up and going out and doing the job that you needed to do, I think that was a shared experience.
Speaker 2:And there were some guys that couldn't quite hang. They couldn't make it. They went and did other things. Maybe they were put on the radio or they went and fixed vehicles with the mechanics or whatever. It was not unprecedented to have individuals that were maybe too high strung or just couldn't really deal with the tempo or whatever. I mean, I'm trying to stay nice and not talk down about anybody, because I don't want it to come off like that. It's just guys that couldn't handle being outside the wire doing their job. We found other things from the do. That being said, you know, all replacements or or people that we used to backfill a lot of times were Were mechanics II for him below or we had a cook. You know I mean just you know guys, that you went and and and grabbed because you were short-handed. You know, and I believe that that's probably why the CAB came about, but you know, so it was. It's hard to say that if there was mentors or even mentees, I'm pretty sure that everybody kind of evolved together because it was just new.
Speaker 1:Was there anyone that you were close with?
Speaker 2:during that point, a number of guys and I still talk to them weekly. So it's been 20 years for me and 20 years since we came home. You know, and you know, yeah, there's guys I talk to weekly and that is yeah, and they're here in Michigan.
Speaker 1:No, no, they're all over, all over the place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some are in Texas, some are outside of Fort Lewis, so yeah, so right now you're, you're in Iraq.
Speaker 1:And what? What years were you in Iraq? Uh, 2004 to 2005. And I'd say that is the so. You had like a two year tour.
Speaker 2:It was a year, so it was OIF 2. It was start to finish probably 15 months and you know the dates escape me but I know it was around Super Bowl time until April of 05. Is this during?
Speaker 1:Fallujah, yeah, is this during Fallujah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had two battles of Fallujah out there, so one in April and one in November. So you know, the country initially was kind of like a sightseeing tour. It was really you know, a bunch of pictures, good times, you know what I mean, check out the mansions and stuff that Saddam had. And then, you know, april it kind of went a little bit awry, you know, and not a little bit, it went a lot awry. It just was was, you know it, everybody realized that they no longer wanted us there, you know, and and so whatever they got independent, wise, they they just, you know well, their independence that they had recently gained from Saddam was the novelty had worn off and you know, I mean, they just wanted us out of their country.
Speaker 2:Basically, you know, and I'm not sure if it was, you know just, it wasn't just the Saddam loyalists, because you had the Shia militias, you know, in Baghdad that were like went insane and, you know, caused a whole bunch of casualties and damage and stuff. So it just it was, it was, you know, I'm not saying it was it was probably one of the harder years to be in that country. I'm pretty sure it was probably, you know, the worst year, but Fallujah Abu Ghraib was around have a great happened at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and when you were there, was there any experiences that you remember, like when you think of that experience when you go back to it? Is there any specific?
Speaker 2:So you know, I think one of the hardest things is, first off, losing some of your guys, our guys. Losing guys is always a difficult thing, and coming home and dealing with their families it just compounds the situation as far as bad. It's definitely not easy to deal with, especially if you were over there and you were leading guys. What was your rank when you were there? I was an E6. I was an E6 over there, so I started off as a squad leader and, believe it or not, I left. I was a platoon leader and that was just through attrition or poor decisions or whatever. But it just, you know, it's just how it worked out and I, you know.
Speaker 2:So the one of the hardest things I think about coming home is not coming home with everybody. And I'm going to leave it at that because it's just, you know, I'll often tell a story. You know, I attended a funeral of one of my guys. I escorted him home and sat next to his mom and my wife was with me. It's just, you know, at the end of the day it just wasn't worth it, and I hope she never hears that. I cannot think of a thing that is worth, you know, these young men not coming back with us. So and that's I'm going to leave it at that. I just Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so fast forward to you find out, like when the tour ends. You find out like, how do you find out when you're going home?
Speaker 2:So, you know, the funny thing is you're supposed to go home on a specific date and then something comes up like elections and you're like, oh man, they're going to send you to Mosul for elections in January. And you're kind of like shit, you know, because at this point you're coming to the end and you don't really want to go out on patrols anymore. You know, it's not that you're afraid, but you're like I made it over the hump. You know we made it through the worst time April of 04, you know, november of 04.
Speaker 2:We made it through these, these months that were just, you know, real intense, with, with, you know, insurgent activity and and now you gotta go pull, you know, security for for elections, so so they can have the freedom that you're currently not enjoying. You know, you can't even have a drink. We lost guys that were 20 years old, couldn't drink here in America, couldn't have a drink in Iraq, and then they'll never experience that. You know, and and and. So here we are staying longer, so they can, so they can have elections over there. That don't really mean shit at the end of the day, and it makes you question the political leadership at home, kind of like what are these guys thinking who was the president when you were there? It?
Speaker 1:was Bush.
Speaker 2:It was Bush and I have no love for the guy. So these politicians make the same mistake every single time. They send us somewhere. We have the ability to win, we have the ability to, you know, completely neutralize the enemy, and we don't utilize it. They pussyfoot around, they send us out on patrols until you get hit or blown up, you know, and they just don't go in for the win because they're worried about public opinion or what the United Nations is going to say or whatever else. And if they have these concerns then they shouldn't send us.
Speaker 2:I mean, if their policy is to go in and neutralize a threat and get their pound of flesh, and they should own it, but going in half-assed is is, you know, no different than you know what happened in Vietnam. It's the same, it's the same crap, it's just repeating itself. You figure these guys would learn. So, just, you know I. I don't know how history will reflect on Iraq, but I can't see any net gain from that war, except for, you know, maybe defense industry and a few real rich guys here in America. I just can't see anything at all. So Afghanistan probably falls into the same category. I didn't go there, but after watching the withdrawal and leaving all our equipment and whatever else. It definitely hurts the individuals that went there and lost people there. I don't have a whole much more to say about it, just well, president trump just was inaugurated.
Speaker 2:How do you feel now that he's so I do feel that, uh, if he sends anybody anywhere, it is for the win. You know, and while we are, you know, instruments of policy, we swear, we take an oath to defend the Constitution and to, you know, obey the orders of the president. I think that you know some of these individuals that are elected there. Their word carries no weight and I think that you know Trump. I think his word carries weight and if he goes somewhere, he means business, and you will not leave with the job half done.
Speaker 2:You won't have to say we lost, guys, for no particular reason, because George W Bush was irritated that his dad didn't finish the job, or whatever the case may be. There's a lot of blood on the hands of these politicians and I don't think that they care, I don't think they lose a minute of sleep over it. So we spend the rest of our lives feeling guilt for things that we may have done or things that we didn't do, you know, and we feel guilt for the outcome, over something that we had no control of. And these guys, you know, have, you know, don't lose a wink of sleep and it's pretty sad, you know. So.
Speaker 1:I agree. So you come home from Iraq, and what's the feeling that you have when you come home? Tell me a little bit about your homecoming.
Speaker 2:So I came home, we landed in Dallas and there was like hundreds of people out there welcoming us home. What was the date of?
Speaker 1:that.
Speaker 2:It was April of 2005. So I get complete with the, you know, just do our, you know, finish our mobilization, do all my paperwork and I fly home. I land in Detroit, you know, my wife and my kids pick me up and you know I hadn't seen them in forever, you know. So you know I go to help my little daughter. She gets all stiff like I'm a strainer or something like that. It was a little bit surreal. But I was home and we get back to our house and my wife's like I need to go on vacation. I'm thinking to myself, man, I just got home. This is just not how it's supposed to be. And again, I blame this on the military and leadership and their ability to ramp us up and get us going. But coming home, it's just dropped into civilization and you're expected to come down off of this year, plus of being at just a specific sense of alertness and everything else, Even your willingness to use force.
Speaker 2:So in my first few years at home I mean it was, and I say years because it was years it took me a long time to get back into any kind of normal routine, as far as you know, not reacting in a fashion to where I was, you know, either hitting someone or doing something else. I'm not talking about my wife and kids. I'm talking about out in public, where you know whether it was, you know driving and road rage to. You know just an altercation in a supermarket. I mean, it was really ridiculous. I'm lucky I didn't end up in prison and I don't know how my wife put up with it because it would definitely stress her out. You know, it's just, it's just a, it's just a continued sign of the treatment of those who serve. And I don't want to make it sound like we're victims, but the reality is you go in, they prep you, they train you, they get you all set to go and do your job. Whether your job is fixing the radio or neutralizing the enemy, it doesn't matter. And then when they drop you back in civilization, it's just a handoff. Here you are. There's no training to get re-acclimated into your normal life, there's no off-ramp. It's a giant on-ramp but you're supposed to jump off the freeway doing 90. And that's kind of how it goes. And I just think that we are all service members. That off-ramp, that ability to to feel, you know normal again.
Speaker 2:You know, and I'm gonna say that you know, I come home in 2005 and I I wasn't on a decent track until 2015 probably 10 years really to where I was. I was somewhat back to, you know the way I should have been. So so before I left, I coached soccer for my kids, I was out and about doing all kinds of things specifically related to family activities, and when I came home I locked myself in the house for a decade. I went to work, I went through the motions, but that was it.
Speaker 2:And I'm not going to say it's PTSD or any of these other things. I'm going to say that it's just no off-ramp, like tossing a cigarette butt out of a car window doing 90 miles an hour. That's how you land back into society. You don't fit Square peg round hole. You're just not. You just can't get back into a normal groove and at least for me and I'll see guys here at the American Legion and they were in Iraq or Afghanistan and I kind of feel they have that look where they're just not quite back, you know, and it's disturbing. It's disturbing because there's nobody out there to help them, except for you know us, we're here, but that's it. So anywhere else, I think that you know, I think VA kind of misses the boat and I do think that they're doing better than they did. But I think that you know.
Speaker 1:But do you feel like it's people like you that helped the situation? What happened to you that made you change and what happened that? You think helped you the most.
Speaker 2:I think being around other vets coming to the American Legion, becoming an active participant here. So the Vietnam vets are the guys that welcomed me when I came to this American Legion right, and you know it was post-141, and I think that they experienced something similar. Now they didn't get the welcome home that I got when I landed in Dallas. They didn't have the hundreds of people there cheering them on. So their homecoming was terrible. Things were thrown at them. They were called baby killers. It was all kinds of bad things that happened, but what mirrors our homecoming was just being dropped back into the public, back on the street.
Speaker 2:So my service, my ETS, was 2005. I was back into the reserves full-time in 2005. I had a bad year because I didn't report until 2007. I mean, and a lot of that was just from getting back and just being dumped into society I was put on a mobile training team I got to do that for a few years which was on ADOS orders, which was pretty good. That was being around a mobile training team. I got to do that for a few years. You know which was. You know, on ADOS orders, which was pretty good. That was being around. You know, a group of guys that had all been in Iraq in 2004, 2005, you know, and it was a six-man MTT, six-man mobile training team. We went wherever training guys that were getting ready to deploy to Iraq that hadn't gone yet, and you know. But as a general rule, you know, the handoff was terrible. I know I'm going off the rails here a little bit, no, you're fine, but you know. So that mobile training team, there were six guys on that team. Three of those guys are gone, three.
Speaker 1:Gone as in. They passed away. Yes, how did they pass away One suicide?
Speaker 2:One from brain cancer, you know glioblastoma. So it was a PAC act-related illness. And then one of them just recent. He was just probably one of the most reckless human beings I'd ever met. Wasn't like that before he went, but he was certainly like that when he came home and he got mad at his wife, jumped on his motorcycle, rode all the way to North Carolina from Michigan and was killed down in North Carolina.
Speaker 1:So yep Three out of the six Do you still communicate with the other three? Yes, absolutely Three out of the six. Do you still communicate with the other three? Yes, absolutely Okay. How long were you in the Reserves? Did you retire from the Reserves? I did.
Speaker 2:So I ended up with five bad years. How it happened, I don't know. It was just not going, and whether it was civilian work or just didn't feel it. Whatever that chain of command was was very sensitive to those of us that had deployed. So I got a lot of leeway, a lot, you know, because any other unit you go to, you get a couple bad years and you're done. You know that place. Right there they were like, well, I'm going to cut this guy some slack, so so I did end up with five bad years. It's unbelievable. So I ended up with 26 years total. I retired in 2023, and I didn't go for the entire year before I retired either. I dropped my paperwork and I quit going.
Speaker 1:So how many years did you end up with? 26. 26?, 26 years how many active reserve?
Speaker 2:My active time totaled over 10, I think close to 13 years between ADOS orders and active time and whatever else, and then the rest was reserve.
Speaker 1:So how did you know you wanted to retire the vaccine mandates? And stuff was enough for me.
Speaker 2:So how did you know you wanted to retire the vaccine mandates and stuff was enough for me. You know, joe Biden, I'm not really a big political guy, but you know, when you get these guys in there, that can care less about the military and we're all aware of it. It's time to go, so yeah, the vaccine mandate probably eliminated a lot of people A lot of senior NCOs walked on out the door.
Speaker 2:So you get out and what's the feeling once you retire? So, because I have this group of veterans that I run around with you and all the guys at the Legion, the transition was fine, it was seamless. A lot of guys, I think, don't quite have that. They don't have that camaraderie of a group of people that have come from the same place and maybe didn't do the same mission, but you still have a very similar background.
Speaker 2:And what I love about you know being out is, you know we rag on each other for branch or MOS but at the end of the day our shared experiences bring that sense of brotherhood and you know I use brotherhood as a gender-neutral term, but it brings that sense of, you know, brotherhood to help feed that fire of inner peace. You know, and I can't explain it any other way, you know I could not find peace until I found, you know, the people here. So I just didn't have it. My family couldn't do it. Love my family more than anything. I would do anything for them and if anybody did anything like that it would bring me back to violence in a moment, if anybody harmed my family.
Speaker 2:But that peace that, you know, I feel good about myself, that comes from being around your own kind, which is, you know, the 1%, those of us that have served. So it's unique, and I don't know if I'm the only one like that, but I do believe there's probably quite a few of us like that. You know that, just enjoy each other's company and you know that's enough. It's enough to help me sleep at night. It's enough to make me feel like I'm accomplishing something.
Speaker 1:So you've been a member of the Legion here, the American Legion here at 141 Devereaux Post, for how long?
Speaker 2:I was coming in and out from 2015, but I actually joined in 2017. Okay, so I joined the post and, and again, that was just from interacting with the old Vietnam guys and you know, feeling like we had stuff in common. You know, just yeah, you know just just that camaraderie was it's and it's enough. Sometimes it's enough to balance out your life a little bit.
Speaker 1:So what positions have you held at the Legion?
Speaker 2:I was a finance officer and I was a commander here. So I did two jobs. I was a finance officer for about four years and then a commander for two years. So both good gigs, pretty good.
Speaker 1:Have you done anything with the Legion that you remember? Did you help? I know that we did something last year where we bought a car for a family.
Speaker 2:So that was through. Yep, that was with a partner, with an insurance company. We took care of a car for a guy, for, you know, a vet, that was transportation poor. I mean, we've paid off school lunches since over the last couple of years we, you know, have done an art program for the kids in the community which brings in, you know, family members and veterans, and it's just a great thing. So this is probably one of the most active posts that anybody can be a part of. There's always something going on here. We enacted a $5 Thursday. It brings every veteran, family members and just people from the community in here.
Speaker 2:A lot of people are like well, why do you want to bring people from outside that aren't veterans in? Because they get to learn about what we've been through, you know. They become a little more understanding or compassionate. So the funny thing about you know, people who haven't served, or civilians and I'm not talking about family members, I'm talking about just you know, just, you know, joe citizen, out there is is uh, everybody is, everybody is pro-veteran or they're for the veteran, right up until they put that you know yellow ribbon on their car and then they forget about it, you know, and that's just a reality. You know, we're not in the forefront of their mind. You make up 1% of the population, and if a veteran is homeless or unemployed, when it's in front of their face, it's on their mind, but other than that% of the population. And if a veteran is homeless or unemployed, when it's in front of their face, it's on their mind, but other than that it's not. You know, and so the only way you really you know, get people educated or understand, you know, the sacrifice that people have made in war and peace to ensure that they can maintain and have the point of view that they want, vote the way they want, write on Facebook the things they want to write, and the only way they're aware of why or how they have those freedoms is to know who we are or what we are, where we come from, and I think that.
Speaker 2:So opening places like this up and inviting regular people in, regular citizens in, is imperative to the 1% that's served, so our stories will continue to exist and be heard. And so the appreciation. So there's a specific appreciation. That's there, and I'm not saying that people should be kissing our ass because we served. That's ridiculous. We never want that. You know, I'm not even comfortable when someone's like thank you for your service. I'm always like what the fuck do I say to that? You know. So it's kind of a weird place. You know a weird place, you know.
Speaker 2:But I do want you know, when they talk about cutting you know veteran affairs, va benefits, or they talk about you know, you'll hear people say that you know veteran benefits are, you know, a cost that can be cut because it's you know they're overpaying or whatever. Well, regular citizens just say you know that's bullshit and that's the only way we will continue to have what we have and will be taken care of from the government is by the support of everyday citizens. There's too few of us, way too few of us, you know so people aren't educated to what we have done or what we've given, and they'll never know. You know, and, and you know again, this isn't related just to combat veterans. I know it was overseas and I spent a combat tour in iraq. It's just it's. It's the sword and the shield.
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot of people that that stand at the ready, that aren't called but have written the same check, signed the same contract, right, and you know these guys are all part of, again guys, plurality.
Speaker 2:There's no gender assigned to that. These people, right, they have signed up and they've given, you know, x number of years of their life to guarantee the freedoms of everyday Americans. And it's huge. It's huge. I don't care if you did two years, four years, six years, 20 years, it's still a huge commitment. People who are off in college and they do four years in college and Americans are like, oh well, you know, they signed up and they didn't realize what kind of debt they were going to be in, and we should probably forgive this. But you've got a veteran that served four years and they lose a leg and people are like, well, that's what they signed up for. You know, I mean, there's this giant oxymoron of you know the way people view things, you know. So, yeah, 13 young people you know, 12 of them were under 25 years old that were killed in the exodus from Afghanistan.
Speaker 1:you know, If someone was listening to this interview, what would you want them to take away from our conversation?
Speaker 2:So service to this country is not getting elected. It's not, you know, running for office and being a career politician. Service is raising your right hand, whether it's in law enforcement or as a firefighter, or as a military enlistee or as a military enlistee, and service is based off of giving of yourself for the good of this country. And most people who serve they come from a family that has served and they have a specific desire to do so. They're different than your average American and it's something that is you're born with, because if you're not born with it, you'll follow the trail of, you know, going to get rich somewhere or whatever else. Nobody's getting rich in the military, and I think that if you have that, then you should consider doing it, because I don't think you'll ever be happy unless you do commit, if you're born with that desire to serve. So, that being said, I think that going off to serve your country in a time of war is difficult and there's a certain amount of guilt that you're going to live with when you come home and you'll never escape it. Is it worth it? I think so. I think it's worth it. I think that, you know, while I disagree with the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan, and I don't necessarily think that it was the direction our country should have gone in. I would do it again tomorrow.
Speaker 2:The best people I have ever met in my life have served this country in some capacity, you know. Some served from 1985 to 1990. Nothing going on in the world Peaks time. They fought in the Cold War, basically, and they're responsible for bringing down the Berlin Wall and the fall of the Soviet Union, you know. Others, you know, were instructors and sending new guys overseas, and it doesn't matter what they did, you know, or where they served. It's just the caliber of people that you meet in service and nothing's 100%, you know. But as a general rule, I think that the best people I've ever met in my life have been in uniform, you know, and the people I prefer to be around are veterans who've worn the uniform.
Speaker 2:We've, in my opinion, given a little bit more to America, and while politicians will stand there and pat themselves on the back and congratulate each other on their accomplishments, I think that they're all second-class citizens, because if they haven't put on their uniform, they don't mean shit to me. So this brotherhood that we're part of, nothing can take it from us, no one can take it from us. And you know, again, my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. We have written ourselves into the history books with our service and through that we live forever. So you know, I mean, yeah, I know it sounds kind of hokey and shit and I get that man, you know, but at the end of the day I couldn't be prouder of my service, my wife's service and those that I meet with, talk to and deal with on a daily basis. I just can't say enough. You know, we're here in America, this free society, because of all of these people. And you know, nothing will diminish my opinion on that.
