Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
In a world where storytelling has been our link to the past since the days of cave drawings, there exists a timeless tradition. It's the art of passing down knowledge, and for Military Veterans, it's a crucial piece of their legacy. Join us on the Veterans Archives Podcast, where we dive deep into the heartwarming and awe-inspiring stories of those who served, no matter when or where.
Here, Veterans get the chance to be the authors of their own narratives. Through guided interviews in a relaxed and safe environment, they paint their experiences with their own words and unique voices. The result? A memory card in a presentation box, a precious gift they can share however they please.
But that's not all. These stories find a secure home in our archive, a treasure chest of experiences for future generations to explore. The best part? It's all a gift to the Veteran – our way of saying thank you for their service.
Tune in to the Veterans Archives Podcast, where history, heroism, and heartwarming tales come to life.
Veterans Archives is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Please visit our website for more information. www.veteransarchives.org
Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
Finding Jon Bureman: The Journey of an Air Force Veteran
Air Force veteran Jon Bureman takes us through his remarkable life journey from military child to signals intelligence specialist to recovery advocate. Born at Bergstrom Air Force Base in Texas, John's childhood spanned continents as his family moved between military installations in Japan, Maine, and back to Japan again. These constant relocations shaped his search for identity and belonging throughout his life.
After graduating high school in Japan, Jon followed family tradition by enlisting in the Air Force, where his aptitude for patterns and numbers led him to Morse code and signals intelligence work. While excelling professionally through assignments in Hawaii, Maryland, and Alaska, Jon battled growing alcoholism – a demon he later discovered his father had secretly fought as well.
The conversation delves unflinchingly into Jon's creation of an alter-ego he called "JB" who "didn't give a shit" – a persona that allowed him to separate his high-achieving military career from his personal demons. His deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan provided temporary forced sobriety but ultimately deepened his struggles upon return to civilian life.
The turning point came in 2018 when hospitalization for a rare blood disorder forced complete sobriety. This medical crisis became a spiritual awakening that completely transformed Jon's outlook. He moved to Oklahoma, explored acting and entertainment careers, and participated in veterans' adventure programs that helped him reconnect with nature and himself.
Now pursuing a degree in social psychology to help others avoid the struggles he endured; Jon's story exemplifies resilience and redemption. His journey from alcohol dependence to self-discovery offers powerful insights about acceptance, purpose, and the healing power of authentic connection. As Jon powerfully states: "Treat yourself as you would treat your best friend. Life is great. Live it every day."
Today is Thursday, march 6th 2025. We're talking with John Buehrman, who served in the United States Air Force. So good morning, john.
Speaker 2:Hey, good morning Bill. How are you?
Speaker 1:Great, great, and it's great to have you here this morning.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:So we're going to start out real simple when and where were you born, john?
Speaker 2:I was born on June 28, 1974, in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've been in Texas most of your life, then.
Speaker 2:Actually no. So in 1974, when I was born, my dad was in the United States Air Force as well. Probably two years he was active. So I was born and we were stationed at Berksham Air Force Base, which is now an airport, an international airport in Austin. But yeah, I was there till about three years old and then my dad got orders to Okinawa, japan, so at three we up and moved to a whole new country, you know. So I didn't know at the time, but we were in Okinawa, japan, from 1979 to 1982. So I remember going to elementary school there, in kindergarten, going to Zuccaran Elementary School, we were on Camp Foster, which actually was a Marine base, and my dad being Air Force. You know that didn't make sense to me, not being at Kadena. So anyways, yeah, being in Japan for those ages, we then got orders to Limestone, maine. So limestone, maine, um. So living Okinawa, japan, and moving up to the tip of Maine near Canada, five miles from Canada, was another culture shock. Um, but yeah, austin, texas, was where I was born.
Speaker 1:Okay, no, yeah, well, that's I mean you. If you think about it, there are actually children who are American citizens, that were born in Germany, that have never lived in America. All they know is living in Germany. So it's uh, that's very interesting. Did you have any brothers or sisters?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a sister named Amy Um. She's two years younger than me. Um, love her to death. So yeah, she actually lives five minutes from me when I'm in Oklahoma.
Speaker 1:So oh, that's very cool. Yeah, I have a sister named amy as well. Oh, cool, cool, she's a. She's a year and a half older than me, so I think our interactions are probably different, but I do love my sister, don't get me wrong. Yeah, so you uh, you're you uh, lived in okinawa, um, moved to maine, uh, and then, um, how long were you in Maine?
Speaker 2:Great question. So 1982, we got to Maine and that's when fourth, fifth grade you know, fifth grade, all the way up to freshman I started creating friends, making friends, understanding you know what it was to be a friend? I thought so. We were in Maine for seven years and I hit my freshman year and I remember my dad coming home and said hey, I got some bad news and some good news. We're moving again, but we're moving back to Japan. So none of that was good news to me, because I mean, you're taking me from my child development years and now I have to go back to another foreign country child development years and now I have to go back to another foreign country, right?
Speaker 2:so that that was uh, that was a lot to to handle, but I mean it was probably the best thing that happened to me or you know, in my childhood, in teenage years, was to go experience another culture, um, with a, you know, able to see more than I was when I was three. Um, and I love the Japanese culture. I can't wait to go back.
Speaker 2:So now you stay there right through high school right, um, I went to um, yokota, japan, um so it was a DOD school department of defense, and I was there from freshmen and I ended up graduating there and then joining the military was there from freshman and I ended up graduating there and then joining the military.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, that's so. I want to. I want to stop there for just a second. I got a couple of questions to ask you. When you kind of look back on those formative years from you, know, earliest memories, uh, kind of forward, tell me, you know, tell me some things about your dad. Like, what do you remember about your dad in those years?
Speaker 2:know, tell me some things about your dad, like what do you remember about your dad in those years? Oh man, um, I remember a lot about my dad, as far as not just looking at pictures and sparking memories, but just memories of their own um going skiing in maine, going snowmobiling. Um going to my first wrestling match I am a huge fan of w WWF or WWE, whatever they call it these days, but uh, yeah, that's my escape. Um. So, yeah, my dad, um is a great mentor, a great father and a great man.
Speaker 1:Okay, so he was there like for you. Oh, that's great. So tell memories of your mom.
Speaker 2:uh, my mom is the one who was um loving, caring, taught me my values, my morals, my respect, my integrity. Um, yeah, she was um a very, very, very, very, very good supporter from for me and my values of of. I guess who would say who John is as a person?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, so, so good childhood then, good memories.
Speaker 2:Even though you, like, had to move around a little bit and that kind of stuff, you still pretty, uh, pretty stable then yeah and um, I'm going to talk about this now cause it'll lead to I'm going to talk about this now because it'll lead to somewhere in the future of my personal experiences. It was a very loving, caring I would quote Brady Bunch family or Leave it to Beaver family but also with a hidden thing inside of the family that we didn't know about. A hidden thing inside of the family that we didn't know about, and that was my dad's alcohol, alcoholism, um, which he kept. No one knew. You know what I mean? Um, he's been sober 27, 28 years now. Um, so that would yeah, it was. It always looks like lights, camera action and and everything's golden, but sometimes there's some stuff in the closet that you never know about. But it's fine, that's part of growing up.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think that the minute we think we have the market cornered on weirdness in our family, we discover that other people have either similar problems or sometimes even worse problems than we have, and it brings everything into perspective Exactly yeah, so you go to school, you make it through high school, and so you immediately joined the service then, after high school.
Speaker 2:So I graduated in 1992. I was working at the commissary as a bagger I mean my favorite job still today. And then I was going to University of Maryland, while in Japan it was like a circuit college or something. It's an amazing experience and also kind of messing with something you shouldn't, because I mean we had free reign to do whatever we wanted. As a kid in another country I was driving a Nissan Skyline, like I said, going to Tokyo at all hours of the night, going to clubs, drinking. It was the Wild, wild West. So after coming home, intoxicated after a few days or a few weeks, my dad finally said hey, you got two decisions you continue to work or go to school and pay rent, or join the military and continue on. You know the family tradition which my grandpa was in and my uncles are in. My dad was in my brother-in-law's in. You know, just, it seemed like the right thing to do, so I just I said okay, take me to the recruiter and sign me up.
Speaker 1:All right, I want to stop you there for just a second, because something kind of strikes me here. So you were out doing a lot of partying At the same time. Your dad was still an alcoholic and no one knew. Yes, and you think maybe he was concerned that you were headed down that same road.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I never even thought about that. Um man, yeah, he probably. I'm sure he was an amazing father. He was probably oh, let's stop the buck here. I see where you're going or heading, because that's probably the same path he was yeah yeah, so you go to the recruiter.
Speaker 1:So you go to the recruiter and probably you're probably like a recruiter's dream, right? I used to recruit and when someone walked into my office with their dad they're like, oh, I want to join. It was like okay, let's do this yeah, nathaniel cotton was his name.
Speaker 2:I still remember walking in the door and his smile couldn't have been any bigger. He's like we got one, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah right, well it's. It's not easy to get in the Air Force either. I mean they have a little bit higher standards sometimes than other branches of service too.
Speaker 2:Right, I took the ASVAB and I know I did horrible on general, I did horrible on electric, I did horrible on mechanics, but my math and general were like out the door. Uh, my math in general were like out the door. Um, and I, I never knew how they picked career fields, but I think I, I got morse code, I got, you know, I think only a certain mind can. Only, I don't know, I don't know no, it's it.
Speaker 1:No I I I've talked to a couple of people who were in that field. In fact, I was talking with a Vietnam vet last week. It does take a certain your mind has to work a certain way to do that. It's just not something you can just jump into and be good at it.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm really. I love numbers, I love solutions, I love thinking out the box, I love spelling words backward. You know stuff like that I'm now. So I talked about my dad's alcoholism. I also am an alcoholic, but also sober. Six years. So I've been following my dad's life and career and style, step by step, just different time frames. Well, um, now that I'm clear and sober and understand more about who I am, not what I was um with that poison, I, I, I take in the challenges and I accept the difference of my mind. Where I used to thought it was, I used to think it was um a disability or I'm different or I don't fit in with other like-minded people, you know. So it's been a struggle, but in the past couple of years it's been a blessing, because I now understand that I am a little different.
Speaker 1:Right, well, no, congratulations on your sobriety as well. Um, let's go, let's go back to that recruiter's office. You sign on the dotted line, um, and then I want to know how this works, because you're in japan, so they fly you all the way back to the states to go to base. How'd that work? Walk me through this.
Speaker 2:So what I think, what I've heard, was when you go to bait, you know, when you start going through the process, you go to maps and they poke, prod, stick, whatever for you. Um, I never went to maps. I never went to a hotel and hung out with a bunch of guys, got busted basic. Um, I did go through the medical process. I remember getting my blood drawn and I fainted, I remember, you know, et cetera, et cetera. It wasn't fun, but yeah, I did that. And then I had to say goodbye to my friends and family at Narita Airport, japan, and they put me on a big ass plane and I got to smoke cigarettes on the airline while I'm flying to San Antonio About a 16 hour flight. They dropped me off at San Antonio and I got picked up by some guy yelling at me Welcome to, welcome to the US. And here's your shit.
Speaker 1:Right, right. Well, so you know, everybody has a different, uh, a different, experience like, or how they experienced it. What was that like for you to? You know, immediately get into basic training and they start. You know, they start right in.
Speaker 2:I mean with the lack of sleep and seeing other people that you know where'd you come from, who are you? You know I'm from Japan, you know, it's just. I am constantly having to explain no, I don't know karate. No, you know I can't fly a fighter pilot jet because I'm in the air force. It's just um stereotypes that other people think that I have to reinsure them that I'm not, that I am me Right, then have to explain me, which isn't easy, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, right. How long was basic training?
Speaker 2:Uh, it was six weeks.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, um, I, I went in with a open general so I didn't have a position. To you know, I didn't know what job I was getting into. So, like I said earlier, um, they gave me a big old list and I said let me pick printer morse code.
Speaker 1:and that's what I got okay and then you, so you, you get done with basic training and then you went on to your schooling after that yeah, and so I finished basic training and I got my orders to fort devins, massachusetts.
Speaker 2:Now I thought I was in the Air Force, but now you're sending me to an army base. I don't. I'm now even more confused. So not, I'm not blue anymore, I'm purple because I'm with army, navy, air Force, marines. We'll put Coast Guard in there, maybe. Um, you know, so it's. It's a chameleon of uniforms instead of just one separate unity, I guess. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:No, it completely does. Like a lot of people don't know this, the Marine Corps doesn't have their own military police school, so Marine Corps military police go to army schools and and so on. So, yeah, I mean that it makes sense. It's like a consolidation. So not ever, you know, have this duplication of effort across the services. But you get to Maine and you're like well, wait a minute, I thought I was in the Air Force, so how long were you in the school?
Speaker 2:Well, it was actually Massachusetts.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, Massachusetts.
Speaker 2:Well, that's another thing. So with being a Morse code operator or working in signals intelligence, you need a top secret clearance. So me coming from another foreign country living there, twice, that's the extensive background check, Plus they have to go to Japan to have that interview with somebody you know. So normally probably basic Morse and advanced Morse was probably four months total, but I was there eight months.
Speaker 1:Oh, so twice as long as you needed to be.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep. So that's a lot of CQ duty waiting for your approval, for your clearance.
Speaker 1:Right, no doubt Now.
Speaker 2:I'm going to Gary Springer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, I remember that. So I'm going to, I'm going to ask, like, during this time, were you, had you started drinking at this time? Or is this something that happens later on? Good question, or does this kind of creep up on you?
Speaker 2:No, I think actually, when I got to Fort Devens, um in 1993, you know you'd have dorm parties and you know we're still kids with responsibilities, so we would sneak parties and all that. This is when. At that same time is when my dad became sober for the first time, and yeah, so that's kind of weird how that all worked out.
Speaker 2:He became, he started becoming sober and I started my addiction, um right but yeah, it was around 93 that I and then I got stationed in hawaii after um, my tech school, and then being single in hawaii. Oh my gosh, it's just open the can twice, three times.
Speaker 1:Let's go yeah, you know so right, well, and, and everybody thinks I'd love to be stationed in hawaii, but it's an island, like after a couple of months, isn't it just like, holy crap, I'm on an island yeah, I would say it's.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's a great place to visit, but the worst place to live. I mean because if you live there, then all your other family wants to come visit because they have a free place to stay and a tour guide.
Speaker 1:You, you know Right, right. So how long were you in Hawaii?
Speaker 2:I was in Hawaii from 1994 to 97. So three years Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, and any any like any highlights from your time in Hawaii, anything you want to share about that while we're talking, I would love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Um. So while I was in tech school, um, I met my first wife and thought that I could show her what love was, that I could show her what the world was, you know. Open her eyes and we had my daughter, Jenna, in 96. Yeah, that's the two major things that came out of there was the marriage and having my daughter.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so how long were you married then?
Speaker 2:My first marriage was for for seven years.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I've always said that marriage is the leading cause of divorce. So I'm, I'm oh and two right now, but again, like I was saying earlier, that was who I was then and I understand now what it is. I know what love is, as Forrest Gump would say.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I'm, I'm one in two on the marriage front. I'm doing really well, um, now. But uh, you know, I, I had my my moments. So you, uh, you stayed in Hawaii then, um and then. So where did you go from Hawaii?
Speaker 2:So in 97, I got orders to, uh, fort Meade, maryland, um, that's where I worked at the National Security Agency from all my career but was actually stationed to work there from 97 to 2002. And that's probably where it all started going down crumbling. The addiction started getting more and more every day. The relation, my marriage, was getting worse and worse every day. I still was able to shine as an airman, an NCO shit hot, you know, because if you show that your iron increased, they're never going to see what's in the house. Like I was saying earlier, you know, and always, my performances were always excelled. But I had my addiction and it was getting worse and worse every day. So I was.
Speaker 2:I thought I was good at hiding it, but what I also was doing was I was surrounding myself with individuals with the same addiction or on their way with that addiction, because who's going to bitch about you drinking when they're doing the same thing? So I will admit that I was not the best father, I was not the best husband and I was not the best person for myself. And that was a struggle till 2018, but that's when it started that that poison, that devil took over and I actually um, create, and then it's gonna sound weird, but it only makes sense to me. Um, I created a persona other than john. You know my soul and his. It was jb, my initials, um, jb didn't give a shit. Jb ran around, manipulated, cheated, steeled. That dude was free game, you know. And now I I understand who that was, and you know that's dancing with the devil and he can go in his corner and wait, you know. So, yeah, that was a lot, but, um, no, it, it and it makes sense.
Speaker 1:I think that, uh, in any situation like that, you will reach an inflection point where you, you can't function right, like, like, there's a lot of I hear the term functioning alcoholics like your. Your father did a great job, you know, and was a good dad and raise you guys, but he was fighting some sort of demon, um, just as you were in in in listening to your story, right, there's no, I don't, you know, I don't hear any huge childhood trauma or anything like that. You just started drinking.
Speaker 2:It was. It was trying to find a place. I've always been trying to be accepted. I've always been trying to find where do I fit in, or purpose, or um, I look at myself now as it's okay not to have a million friends, just be friends with yourself. I mean, I've had to live life through movies because that's how I learned culture. You know, while I was in Japan I had to watch Dukes of Hazzard to see what these guys were doing back there with Daisy, duke and Bo and Luke. You know I had to catch up. So I think my favorite movie is the movie Stand by Me. That's a movie about five boys who are thick as thin and I thought that's what friends were. Gordy Vern, you know, come on, vern.
Speaker 2:All that you know and that's how I portrayed friends to be, be and when I try to make those friends that way, I was either dismissed or picked on, or just or accepted, but just because I don't know, right, but you're drinking, but counseling but you're drinking, buddies will always accept you.
Speaker 1:True, right doesn't matter. And and that's part of the problem, so you're, so you're, you're there. You say you're, you know you're working. You were working for the nsa at the time, was that? Yeah, okay, and everything's kind of falling apart.
Speaker 2:What finally happened with that marriage. So, as the marriage is falling apart, I'm I got a DUI in 2001,. Alcohol still there was. I would say it was just two young kids who thought they knew what love is, who was blessed with a wonderful daughter, and after that, you know the chapter ended and it's time to move on and go your own ways. I still connect with her, um, after that, you know the chapter ended and it's time to move on and go your own ways. Um, I still connect with her. I mean, it's her mother. We still talk, but, um, it's just understanding that. You know, I had a problem. She was still figuring her stuff out and it didn't. It didn't work out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so you you end up.
Speaker 2:I'm dumb.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I think sometimes when people get married young, they just they grow differently and it just doesn't work out. And if you add, if you add in being in the military and having an alcohol problem and having some self-esteem issues, none of that's a recipe for success, unless you figure it out and then, and then you can, you can make it work, so you, so you're divorced.
Speaker 2:That's a good point. I wasn't ready to work anything out, I was just yeah, so that's a good point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so do you stay there then in Maryland for the rest of your?
Speaker 2:career? No, then, in Maryland for the rest of your career, or where do you go? So, um, after 2001, I got my DUI, I went to Norfolk, virginia, for a month of uh, rehab, um, and then in 2002, I received orders to Anchorage, alaska. So, after covering or putting a band-aid over my addiction, I got to go to another big old island by myself, no one knew anything, and start all over again.
Speaker 1:Well, John, can I just interrupt you here? I think that probably that was the worst place to send a guy who's a recovering alcoholic.
Speaker 2:Am.
Speaker 1:I wrong.
Speaker 2:It's dark half the year, everybody else is single and doing the same thing, and you find like-minded people, and they're easy to find and, oh my gosh, yeah, I had a blast.
Speaker 1:I'll bet. And you're still young too, right? So there's still this part where this is just normal.
Speaker 2:You know young adult behavior yeah, I was 27 when I got there and left at 30, um, so yeah, it was um, again, shit hot. Um. Um, awards, promotion, stuff like that. But our schedule was a Panama schedule, which no one's familiar. It's three days on two days off, two days on three days off. So you're off every other weekend Friday, saturday, sunday you're pretty much half the year you're off, and if you take two days of leave you get seven days of leave. So, um, yeah, let's play ball. So every time we're off work it was three days of binge drinking and just enough to get right to go back to work right and nobody's nobody's checking on you because you went through rehab, so you must be good, right?
Speaker 2:but no one's really checking on you, because they're doing it with you oh, that's yeah. And then just going into work and you have each other's backing of the good old boy system.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So was was Alaska just kind of a blur then.
Speaker 2:Pretty much it was a um, if I could say anything significant out of it. Every day was a postcard, every day was a Kodak moment. Other than that, the rest was probably hell yeah.
Speaker 1:So where did you go from Alaska?
Speaker 2:After Alaska I went back to good old Fort Meade where it all started. Yep, and again I mean I worked at the highest place in the building and continued the same. John and JB, you know roles Right.
Speaker 1:Only this time you're not married, right, you're still single.
Speaker 2:Uh no.
Speaker 1:Oh, I got married again.
Speaker 2:Okay still single. Uh, no, I got married again okay.
Speaker 1:I got married again in 2000 after I got back from iraq 2009.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, I'm sorry, after after fort meade or after alaska.
Speaker 1:I got fort meade and then in 2008, I went to iraq okay, so let's talk about that a little bit, if you want to.
Speaker 2:Sure Getting married again or Iraq.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, let's kind of keep it in sequence. So you went to Iraq before you got married again, correct?
Speaker 2:Right, okay, so I met this girl who I knew her sister when I was stationed in Hawaii, this um girl who I knew, her sister when I was stationed in hawaii. Um, so anyways, I met, I met her and great girl, um, we bought a house. We had a four-bedroom house, we had a man cave, we had a white picket fence with a pool. I thought I was at my kingdom but I was really starting to dig my hole of just keep digging your hole. So then I got orders. I mean I, yeah, I got orders to deploy to Iraq in 08 to 09.
Speaker 2:So I was there a year that was good for sobriety I mean I couldn't drink so and I did really good. There was no like withdrawals or shakes or anything like that. So, um, I just remember kind of feeling like when I left the united states, I, I put a tomato plant in the dirt, a seed, and then I went to iraq and then I came home a year later and that tomato plant was just full of fruit, full of just life. So I got to come home and see what the experience happened of was, but I wasn't there to witness it. So coming home after a year, I felt like I missed out on so much. Um the house is different. Um everybody has new stories.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, I didn't like this, the seclusion stuff life goes on right.
Speaker 1:When you're gone, life still goes on. So tell me a little bit about your time in iraq. Where were you at?
Speaker 2:I was at uh camp cropper and it was um. It's where they put sudan Hussein before he was executed. It was where all the detainees go. So they would go roll up a bunch of people and not all of them were, say, a wedding, and three of them were bad guys. They would get 10 of them, even though the three were bad, and they would bring them to the detention center. And I was an analyst for interrogation. So I would have to get these records and see if you're Shia Sunni, what religion were you, how many wives and kids do you have? I'd get all this intel, give it to the interrogator and they would go in and say, oh, so I see you have four kids. I got kids. I get to go home to them, but you're stuck in here. And then, okay, here's where the weapons are, here's where the drugs are, you know stuff like that right yeah, I worked in the jail yeah, yeah, yeah, I was in.
Speaker 1:I was in mosul in 06, okay, and so I remember dropping guys off at the, at the jail, uh, right there. So, yep, and it was crazy. Yeah, it wasn't pleasant. I'll say that, um, so, yeah, so for a whole year, you're basically digging up stuff on people so that they can interrogate them and get what they need out of that. Yeah, how'd that make you? How'd that make you feel like, how did you feel about the whole time there? I mean, I, I don't have a preconceived notion. I mean some people be like great, I was helping the country, some people might not.
Speaker 2:So I just wonder how it made you feel um, at the time I didn't know how to feel. I was just following rules and doing as I told, because that's what I've been used to all my life. Okay, we're going here now, you're going here now. Um, so I guess, without having a choice, I didn't think um. Now I think um, what was I doing? Like you know again, I was doing what I was told and what I signed up for. But me now I just shake my head. I get it. I'm important.
Speaker 1:Right, I understand. So it was pretty much a routine then. Therefore, I mean you're in Iraq and it's Iraq and there's still a lot of stuff going on, but you were pretty much into your routine, just kind of doing your thing every day.
Speaker 2:No, it was 12-hour shifts. You go to work and then go to bed and then go to work and go to bed. Um, the food was great. I gained 50 pounds, you know not drinking um, so that was a. That was definitely a plus, but, um, once I got back, the drinking just got worse I mean I missed out on a year of drinking.
Speaker 1:I gotta catch up yeah, exactly, you know'm curious, like when you're in Iraq and you're not drinking, did you have any sort of I don't know? I hear people talk about clarity. Was it like? Did you have a different, like mindset while you were there because you weren't drinking, or it just really didn't change anything?
Speaker 2:I would say no, there wasn't a different mindset, because you still had non-alcoholic beer in the DFAC. You still were offered three Budweiser's during the Super Bowl, which I passed on because don't, don't give me three, I want 12. And I could already see myself getting ration tickets from other people and getting in trouble and getting kicked out of country over some beer. I took it as maybe a break and maybe a continue when I get home to not do this anymore. But yeah, you told me I couldn't drink for a year. Okay, I'll wait till I get back. I couldn't drink for a year. Okay, I'll, I'll wait till I get back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what was it like? You know I you already alluded to the tomato plant and how things had all changed, but what was it like when? You like when you first got back, like you've been gone for a year, now you're back. Talk, let's talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm going again. Another wild wild west atmosphere. It's back to overstimulation. You know, there you go 15 miles in a car and you don't have to look around if you're going to get hit by something. You come back to the States. You're, you know they say watch your six, here You're watching your clock. You know you've back to the stage. You're, you know they say watch your six, here you're watching your clock. Right, you know you got to watch every angle. So yeah, it was overwhelming. Um, anxiety built up, um a lot. I think you know that might be another way where I got all my anxiety more enhanced, of coming back from one situation to another.
Speaker 1:I hate it I've, you know, I've heard people say that, uh, and I've lived it, so I believe this that, um, the only thing more difficult than going off to war is coming back from it yes, yeah, I only had to go to year for one year.
Speaker 2:I live war every day, right now, right, you're here.
Speaker 1:So so what? What happened? You got back, everything's kind of everyone's moved forward and you, you're kind of still stuck in the prior year, it sounds like. So how? So what happens when you get back?
Speaker 2:oh, man it. Alcohol is your best friend. If they don't call him jim, john and johnny for nothing, and jack, you know Right. So, yeah, just, I missed out on a year, so I'm going to catch up. The relationship with my second wife started deteriorating. I mean what? Expectedly, because who wants to put up with that? So, yeah, the house. I just I lived in the house on a short sale. I don't have to pay rent why not, you know? So, yeah, I just lived there and just did whatever.
Speaker 2:And then, um, with the grace of God, I got to retire in 2013. Um, I guess the hard work of professional side trumped the addiction side, but either way, it worked out. So then I went to Afghanistan as a contractor after I retired for a year. So there, as a contractor, yes, I couldn't drink, but in my mind, I'm not an Air Force member anymore, I'm a civilian kind of. So I'm going to break the rules a little bit. So people would send in the mail tea bottles full with liquor in it or any way you could get it. You would get it, and I was drinking in Afghanistan at the end of it. But when I noticed me starting drinking almost every day is when I said I got to go home, I can't do this.
Speaker 1:Right, and what were you doing as a contractor there? Just Intel stuff still.
Speaker 2:Right, I worked at a place called Area 82 in Afghanistan, in Bagram, and just helping boots on the ground and doing stuff like that, you know.
Speaker 1:Okay, All right, so you come. So then you leave Afghanistan. You come back now. By this time are you divorced again? Yes, Okay, and you didn't have any children with your second wife.
Speaker 2:No, no, we didn't.
Speaker 1:All right. So where do you? Where do you? So when you say you came back home, where was at this point? Where's home?
Speaker 2:I moved back to Fort Meade, maryland. The house that was in short sale is now being sold, so that's weighed off the shoulders. I was staying with some friends for about two weeks and then, like I got back from afghan afghanistan to jack jimmy, john I found jose too. He was over there. Um, yeah, yeah, I started doing at their house. You know, at another buddy's family's house just in the backyard, drinking every day and he's like john man, you got to find your own place. You know you can't be doing this here. I'll help you, but not like that. So I found my own place, um, I, uh, I started working at the national reconnaissance office, the nro, in virginia, um, and that was a commute every day of 56 miles in washington dc, maryland, virginia. So one hour trip was a four hour trip. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's a long time in the car, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:It's um, and that was the same schedule as I talked about previously. To Panama. We had a two on three off, three on two off and back in the same schedule three days of binge drinking and have to go drive an hour, work 12 hours and drive three hours back, so that that tore me up. I beat the hell out of myself for those four years. That's when I started not caring about myself anymore. If it happened, it happened. We found me, you found me. It is what it is'm done and I think I really just given up on myself.
Speaker 1:Um I want, I want to back up just a little bit. Um, something you said kind of struck me. Um, when you uh first bought the house, uh, in maryland, um, it was white picket, fence, man cave, your kingdom, you were loving it. You get back, you get divorced, you're drinking, and you said it finally sold in short sale and it was a weight off my shoulders. So that thing went from something that really made you happy to just I gotta get rid of it, you know, and and it just sounds like a little bit of a spiral. And then you're talking about how you've kind of given up on yourself through working at this place. So I didn't mean to interrupt, but I just wanted to make that point that you know you went from hey, this is pretty cool to holy crap. I got to get out of here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think by me saying that is the position, or where I'm at today. I live in a one-bedroom apartment with four corners and everything I need I can put in my car. So you know that four-bedroom pool, man caves, everything that I thought that I needed to keep up with the Joneses or you know la-la, or keep me entertained. No, sir, uh-uh, I have it all right here and that's just a peaceful mind, a beautiful soul and a loving heart, you know.
Speaker 1:Right, well, stuff doesn't make you happy at all. So let's, let's, uh, let's go back to uh, uh, you're still living at Fort Meade. You're doing this commute, you're like in, this sounds like this kind of this downward trend, um, so, so what happens? You did that for like four years. What happens after that?
Speaker 2:Right? Um, so within those four years, um, I'm still lying, cheating, manipulating, all those things I was talking about earlier. Um, I met a wonderful girl, um, going through her own personal struggles, and I always say it's like two angels meeting. We met for a reason we helped each other out with each of our own problems and through all that, in October 10th of 2018, I was hospitalized with a rare blood disease called TTP. I don't know the medical term, but it affects your platelet counts and, as humans, we're supposed to have like 250,000 count. My count was one to 12. So I was hospitalized for 10 days. I had to get. So I was hospitalized for 10 days.
Speaker 1:I had to get platelet or plasma or some Transfusions.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, they gave me more platelets probably.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 2:I had to get all that, so I was going to die. And this is my second year death. My first one was in 2011, where I was on dialysis for eight months with kidney failure. So, anyways, back to this one in 2018, the doctor came up to me and said John, you can never drink again. And I still remember him, dr Singh, telling me that. And since that, never drink again. Um, and that's where my new chapter started. Um, I started seeing angel numbers, I started seeing spiritual stuff, universe stuff, kind of looking like what is going on here. What is this? Um, I would call it a calling, and I know it sounds weird listening, but this is. This is what I had experienced, right, and um, I continue today just to be positive. Um, using my words not just to anybody, but to myself, how you speak to yourself, um, stuff like that. So this is after everything I've just talked about. From 1974 to today. Um, it's been a struggle, but every day is a blessing now.
Speaker 1:How do you um? How do you not, how do you not drink?
Speaker 2:I mean, I know, I know that that there's always the fear of I can't drink because it's going to make me sick again. But, um, how do you? I mean, that was such a big part of your life how do you not do it? Above nine dollars and 99? You know what I mean. Eggs go up, but beer never does. Um, it doesn't bother me or bug me, because I know it is a poison. I know what it is, um, and I know why I did it. It's just to be accepted, and those guys will accept anybody, or those you know. That group will accept anybody, because you know, and the addict loves an addict, come on in. So I think it was more just for an acceptance not to be judged, um, cause I know I'm different. So if I'm drunk you can't tell if I'm different or drunk. It's just part of it, you know? Yeah, so yeah it.
Speaker 1:That's probably why so it sounds like self-acceptance too. Like you, you never really accepted yourself, but now it sounds like you're on that, on that path.
Speaker 2:I didn't know myself. I've had to change. I've had to be a chameleon all my life. You know, stand against the wall and then take all others in. I'm also an empath. Um, my light shines so bright and I want to help everybody. You know, like that porch on your light, that light on your porch, I turned it on and all the bugs come Um.
Speaker 2:but now I've learned to not shine it on others. I'll always shine. You can come to me, because if I go to you and try to help you or see if anything's wrong and you tell me get the hell away, I don't need you, then my feelings get hurt. I feel dismissed, I feel like you're mean to me. You know, but no, you just don't want to be bothered. And so I'm understanding, not who. I understand who JB was and why, but I understand, I'm understanding more and more who john is, and I think that's the best part that really is every day I get to learn yeah well, so tell me about this, this we kind of glossed over this.
Speaker 1:Tell me about this, this girl that you met, um, and and are you still seeing each other?
Speaker 2:no, no, that was um just a period of time in Maryland where I just loved her, always will love her, wish her the best and, like I said, it was just every seven years, I think I I'm crazy about this, but I think that we have transitional relationships.
Speaker 1:And what I mean by that is like I could have this person who's my best friend for years and years and years and years. But then it just kind of plays itself out and they were there, we loved each other and we were good, but now it just it doesn't work anymore and you have to kind of let that go. You know you don't have to keep all of your friends for the rest of your life that there are people who come and go for different reasons. You know we don't know what the reasons are, but they come and go for different reasons.
Speaker 2:I totally agree with that. Um, I believe everybody is my best friend when I meet you the first time because we're all connected If we have the same values and we have the same thinking, mindsets. That makes it easier to have a better relationship. But everybody's an individual and you can't control their choice, their mindset, their thinking. So if anybody ever wants to pick up the phone and holler at me, I'm going to pick up and holler you back. It's two way communication or receiver communicator. It all goes together and I'm sure if you saw that friend who you haven't spoke to in seven years tomorrow it'd just be like catching up yesterday.
Speaker 1:Right, you know we probably won't hang out we probably won't hang out, but we'll talk yeah, that kind of thing yeah, yeah. So. So what's going on with john now? I mean, you've got your apartment, you kind of figured your, you kind of figured yourself out actually, and so so what's going on now?
Speaker 2:great question. Thank you. Um, so in 2020, um, that's when stuff started. Well, covid happened and that's when stuff started to happen with me. I started just be like, uh, I guess say the word enlightened. Um, I read, uh, well, I, I like listening to audiobooks, I listen to the Law of Attraction the only book you need to read or listen to and man manifesting is true, because I live it every day. Every day, I sit and laugh when something, because time doesn't matter anymore, it'll happen when it happens. But when something does happen, I just sit back and I'm like there it is.
Speaker 2:And it started out when I moved to Oklahoma in 2020 during COVID, to be closer to my mom, my dad and my sister and my immediate family. My daughter's still in Maryland. She's fine with her mom, so I needed to move to get away from my environment of alcoholic drinking, maryland friends, all that stuff Start over. So I came to Oklahoma in 2020. Stayed with my sister for about six months.
Speaker 2:I tried to go out on my own and figure it out. I want to be an actor. I want to be an entertainer. I want to be an actor. I want to be an entertainer. I want to be a clown, you know, center of attention. So as a kid I've done a lot of plays. I was a mascot for a high school team. So I'm like I'm going to use this quality of John that I know is me and go do something with it.
Speaker 2:So I started pursuing acting in Oklahoma because California was, taxes are high and they would come over here for a tax break and stuff like that. So I started driving Lyft just to get to know the area and meet people. So, as as driving Lyft, I met a customer who owned a dinner detective murder mystery. That's where you go in as a customer and you watch a play and the murderer can be right near you as an actor. So I was telling him my vision and he was like oh, I own this business, why don't you show up tomorrow? So I did and I became part of that. Being part of that, I started doing improv. I did an open mic at a comedy show. All this going on. Then I started getting acting gigs. I got to do Killers of the Flower Moon with Leonardo DiCaprio, martin Scorsese I got to be on set.
Speaker 2:I was not on the movie, but I was there for three days. I got to do a BH one see many, many series about a, a diamond heist. I was um. I got to work for the Oklahoma thunder as a storm chaser, which is like a hype man throwing t-shirts and yelling.
Speaker 2:Um man, I've got to do a lot of cool things and but as doing them, I'll put up Hollywood as quotes. It's just a nasty environment. They have no cooth, they don't know how to talk to you. It's all about getting the shot and getting the money, which I understand, but I didn't belong in that bubble and I didn't want to be in that bubble. So I got to experience something that I've been wanting to do prove to myself that I can do it. As long as you put in, as long as you believe it, you perceive it, you will receive it. So have a thought, put in work and it will happen.
Speaker 1:It's that easy. Hey, john, something I want to point out that you just said that's super, super important. So you know, I have read the books that you're talking about, as well as a couple of others, and um many people read those books and they think, well, I just have to put it out in the universe and it'll come to me. You still got to put in the work. Like you still got to put in the work. You still got to, but you put in the work with, with the thought process that it's this is going to happen and this is happening. But you can't just sit on your couch and manifest something and I don't want people to get confused about that. Like you still got to do this stuff to make it happen, but it's not going to happen if you don't do these other things.
Speaker 2:Very true. Thank you for adding that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Write it down in a journal, you know, instead of saying, man, I wish I had some money you know, the easiest thing is thank you for the abundance of wealth that's coming my way and imagine that lottery ticket or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:And I guarantee you'll find a penny on the ground Don't call it coincidence is what you asked for. You know what I mean. So yeah, um, definitely. If you shit in one hand and wish in the other, that's what you're going to get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which one fills up first? I, you know another. Another book you might want to check out too is called God winks, and it's about those God winks, g O D W I N K S, and it's about, uh, those happy coincidences that aren't really coincidences. Anyway, it travels right along with what you're saying, so it sounds to me like you're just living your best life now.
Speaker 2:I am Um, and especially with the help of well, in uh 2022, I was really sinking deeper, deeper into a hole, getting into myself, getting into my head. I'm not worth it. What are you doing? Your purpose is nothing. Who are you, Um?
Speaker 2:So I reached out to an old high school buddy from yukota in japan, um, who was a, you know, army guy. He did the special rangers, army ranger stuff. You know, really, really been through some stuff. So I reached out to him and explained my experience and he's telling me I'm getting goosebumps just listening to you, john, because I feel what you're throwing down. So he invited me to his place in Washington state and I got to see nature. Did I get to see nature? Oh, and it spoke to me. It said hey man, what are you doing out there, that crazy coming here? And I did.
Speaker 2:And when I got back to Oklahoma, I was looking at a veteran's newsletter which I never even pick up. You know I'm like ah, delete. And I just started reading it and I saw this um, this program called no barriers for warriors in Colorado. So I got up at 12 at night and I spelled out the application and did what I had to do and I hit submit and three months later I got a call or an email saying that I was accepted to go on this adventure One week adventure in Colorado to elevate a 13,000 foot mountain, pooping in the woods, sleeping in a tent, eating dehydrated food.
Speaker 2:Sign me up. I don't know what I'm getting into, but it sounds great and it was the worst thing I've ever done in my life. I was. This was not in the brochure, this is not what I signed up for when am I at? But it was the best thing I've ever done in my life because it showed myself. I was allowed to show myself grace. I was. I beat myself up, I yelled at myself, but I also just love myself. And I got up that damn mountain.
Speaker 2:And it continued to lead to other programs, such as Waypoint for Veterans, which I got to go to Utah and experience Mount Zion through the narrows, rappelling, hiking and camping. Southern Ground, which is in Georgia, by a country music singer, Zach Brown, who teaches about your. I got this. A peacemaker, I'm an achiever, I'm a helper, I'm an individualist and I'm a loyalist. Those are amazing words and that's me. So these programs not just yeah, you get to go skiing and you get to go climb mountains and it's beautiful, but, um, it's helped me tremendously on finding out who the hell I am and what's next yeah, well, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:So what do you? What do you think is next?
Speaker 2:well, that's a good question. I just signed up um for another trip to Costa Rica to do ayahuasca. So yeah, I want to see what that's going to open up. I'm also just about to finish my degree in social psychology to use that to help other people with addiction, just so they don't have to go through half the shit that I went through. So if I can help, that that's what I want to do.
Speaker 1:All right, well, excellent. Well, you know, it sounds like you're on the path, um, you know, at this point and, uh, it's kind of been fascinating like learning about you and following you. You know, through all of these things and, um, you know, not a lot of people have that self-awareness that you have. Um, before I wrap, before we kind of wrap up our discussion, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to talk about?
Speaker 2:Um, I can't think of anything. I mean, I I have highlights upon highlights upon highlights, but I think this is the most important. What we went over is just, you know you could come from somewhere, come from anywhere, but eventually you're going to be you and be nowhere, be where you're at and, like you said, the self-awareness it's. I'm so grateful I have it and I finally realized it, because I didn't know I had a choice, I didn't know I was allowed to do other things, and that's probably the one thing I'm still struggling with is transforming from a military member to a civilian, because I still don't think I can go out past 10 o'clock at night or something's going to happen. You know what I mean. There's rules and regulations still in my head where I can go, do what I want, but that's the that's. That's what I'm working on now is what is? What am I going to do when I grow up? And what it's going to be like when I grow up.
Speaker 1:But time will tell right time will tell right, which we never make. There you go, there you go, all right. Well, you know we'll wrap up our conversation today. I always ask everyone the same last and final question it's the only one that's scripted, not from your end, but from my end, because I always ask it and that is you know, when someone listens to your story years from now, like when both of us are not here anymore, what message do you have for them?
Speaker 2:To never give up, to fight every day, to love yourself, Give yourself grace, give yourself compassion. Treat yourself as you would treat your best friend. Life is great. Live it every day.
Speaker 1:All right, thanks, john. Thanks for taking the time out to talk with me today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Well, I thank you so much. Have a great day.
