Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
In a world where storytelling has been our link to the past since the days of cave drawings, there exists a timeless tradition. It's the art of passing down knowledge, and for Military Veterans, it's a crucial piece of their legacy. Join us on the Veterans Archives Podcast, where we dive deep into the heartwarming and awe-inspiring stories of those who served, no matter when or where.
Here, Veterans get the chance to be the authors of their own narratives. Through guided interviews in a relaxed and safe environment, they paint their experiences with their own words and unique voices. The result? A memory card in a presentation box, a precious gift they can share however they please.
But that's not all. These stories find a secure home in our archive, a treasure chest of experiences for future generations to explore. The best part? It's all a gift to the Veteran – our way of saying thank you for their service.
Tune in to the Veterans Archives Podcast, where history, heroism, and heartwarming tales come to life.
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Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
Beyond Deployment: Finding Community After the Uniform Comes Off with Jimi Threet
Jimi Threet never expected military service to be his path forward. Growing up poor in Anderson, Indiana—a town featured in an HBO documentary about industrial decline—he struggled in school and saw limited options. With a 1.8 GPA and little direction, the Army became his unexpected salvation at age 17.
What followed was a remarkable journey spanning two enlistments, combat deployment during the initial Iraq invasion, and a transformation from enlisted machinist to infantry officer. Jimi's technical skills proved lifesaving during deployment, where his unit fabricated their own armor from confiscated Iraqi materials to protect inadequately equipped troops. "We up-armored our own vehicles because we just welded them together with stuff we confiscated from the Iraqis," he explains. This resourcefulness amidst danger exemplifies the problem-solving mentality military service often requires.
After initially leaving the service, the 2008 economic crisis pulled Jimi back to the Army—this time as an officer. Despite his creative background and degree in animation, he chose infantry because he "wanted the most time with soldiers" possible. His leadership philosophy centered on respect and pragmatism: "I always wanted everybody to feel like they're a valuable part of this team and their things matter."
Personal tragedy struck in 2015 when his daughter's mother died by suicide. The military's minimal response accelerated his decision to leave service permanently. Now living in Austin, Texas, Jimi has found purpose building communities for veterans through entrepreneurship initiatives and psychedelic healing experiences. His daughter, now a successful artist, thrives in Austin's accepting environment.
Jimi's story demonstrates how military service shapes lives in unexpected ways. His advice for others navigating life after service: "We're all doing the best we can with the cards we're dealt, and sometimes our best sucks...but most people are trying to do their best." Whether you're a veteran seeking community or someone trying to understand military experience, his journey offers valuable perspective on resilience, adaptation, and finding your place in the world.
Today is Tuesday, March 11th 2025. We're talking with James Jimmy Threatt, who served in the United States Army. So good afternoon, Jimmy, Good to have you here.
Speaker 2:Hi, nice to be here.
Speaker 1:Nice to be anywhere right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:All right, we're going to start out with. You know the basics, so when and where were you born?
Speaker 2:I was born in Anderson, indiana, and I was born in 1980 on April 6th, which was, oddly enough, easter Sunday.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:And anybody who knows me knows how ironic that really is.
Speaker 1:I'm sure we're going to find that out during this conversation, aren't?
Speaker 2:we.
Speaker 1:So where is Anderson Indiana?
Speaker 2:It is about 30 minutes northeast of Indianapolis.
Speaker 1:Okay, and you lived there like most of your childhood, or were you just born there and moved someplace else?
Speaker 2:No, I actually lived there. So I lived between there and Pendleton, which is just the next town over, all the way through high school and then a little bit after high school.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, tell me, what was it like growing up? Did you have siblings? What were some of the highlights of your childhood?
Speaker 2:I had a half-brother. He passed in 2005. He was in a car accident and then my sister. I still have a half-sister and they're both much older. I was through a second marriage, actually a third marriage, family secret.
Speaker 1:That's not a secret anymore, Jimmy.
Speaker 2:So yeah, my brother was 10 years older than me and my sister was seven, or is seven years older than me.
Speaker 1:So for all intents and purposes, you were almost like an only child.
Speaker 2:Kind of yeah, yeah is you were almost like an only child, kind of yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I kind of got the the a little bit of that being my dad's only child okay, well, you know, tell me a little about your dad, since we, you know, you were his only child. Um, you know what's your, what's your memories of your dad?
Speaker 2:um, my mom and dad divorced when I was four years old and he was he. He was around town for a couple of years and I think probably when I was about seven or eight, he moved to Tennessee and then he basically just became the guy on the end of the phone for pretty much the majority, even to this day. Um, you know, I, I've. I think I saw him for the first time in eight years, three years ago.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:And so you know we talk on the phone sometimes, but a lot of times it's not very connected to the guy, like I barely know it, you know so um, yeah, yeah, Um yeah, yeah, but I don't like, I don't blame him really because his dad was murdered by uh, his mistress. Oh so you know, like those generational things that just kind of come on, you know, come down the pipeline, I get it. You know, luckily I I decided to change that and I'm very close with my daughter, like very close.
Speaker 1:so it's good sometimes. You know it's interesting, like sometimes we uh learn the wrong things from our parents and sometimes we learn how not to do things from our parents, and it just depends on how we take it right the same.
Speaker 2:You go for leadership in the military team. Yeah, absolutely I learned a lot of wrong things 100.
Speaker 1:Most of my junior enlisted time was spent learning how not to lead. I'll give you that one. Um, what about your mom? Tell me a little about your mom, and maybe your stepdad, if you're, if you're inclined.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, my mom, my mom worked a lot. She, she was, um, you know, she she did, she worked really hard to keep us going and, like we, we were definitely in the poverty, you know, in a poverty line most of growing up and we struggled. You know we struggled some, well, a lot, but you know it still was. I had my sister a lot too, so that was that was one thing. She had grown up, she and I were very close and then I had grandparents, so that, so my, my mother's father and my dad's mother were my two closest grandparents and, um, a lot of who I became or who I, who I am now, is because of those two people. Um, but going back to my mom, she was kind of a hands-off parent. That's a discussion we've actually had as adults. It was nothing shy of a miracle that I kind of had the foresight to see the writing on the wall where my life was going and do something about it, because joining the military was that for me, you know.
Speaker 2:And you know you meet a lot of those people in the military, people in my situation, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, we, always in our family, let's say we were feral children because we were latchkey kids, mom and dad weren't you know? Parents were divorced, mom was working you just, you've survived. Yeah, you know, we were latchkey kids, mom and dad weren't?
Speaker 2:you know, parents were divorced, mom was working, you just you survived, yeah. Yeah, like I'm the back end of gen x, you know 1980 and and very much latchkey kid, not a whole lot of supervision, you know, and that kind of stuff and and I I don't know if that's like I I will look back at the generations before them and everything and how kind of how trends are made and like I find most people my age had parents like that, just very kind of hands off, you know that latchkey kid thing and why that is. Who knows, you know? But I'm sure somebody knows. But yeah, I mean I don't, I ain't mad about it. I had a lot of fun, you know, and I survived it also. That was cool Cause I probably should, right, right.
Speaker 1:Well, let's, let's talk about that a little bit. So what was school like for you?
Speaker 2:Uh, you know I, I uh, I did okay in school. Um, I had some some years where I did really well, like I was in beta and stuff like that. I think I was like fifth and sixth grade, and then I just stopped caring, like hormones kicked in and you know, I just like I started to, honestly, I started to see school for what it was. Even before people were talking about school being an institution, I felt very much, even as a as a young kid, that it was an institution. And by by junior high, I was like this is, this is utter bullshit. Like, like you know, and I remember graduating school and I had a.
Speaker 2:I had a college recruiter come to my house and she was like cause I graduated high school with like a 1.8 gpa? Yeah, no, like the army was a pretty, was probably the only branch that was going to take me. You know what I mean, right? Um, maybe the marines, but probably not. I think they like to dumb them down after they get in it's entirely possible, because you're eating all those crayons most of my family are marines, so I love giving them, giving them the most possible.
Speaker 1:But shit, I can, jimmy, I gotta tell you I feel like we were like separated at birth or something, because I grew up, I grew up in a a marine corps family. My stepdad was a marine, um you know. So very similar like I feel like I have the right to give marines a little bit of crap because I grew up around that and they weren't pleased when I joined the Navy.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I mean very similar background. So I just, um, you know, just it's kind of remarkable. So you, so this this recruiter shows up and she's like, hey, you should go to college.
Speaker 2:Oh yes. So she was like she's like you know why did you? She asked me she's like why. She was like she's like you know why did you? She asked me she's like why do you think you did so poorly in school? And I said, cause, school's bullshit. I was like.
Speaker 2:I was like I was like especially high school, like I tell my daughter that she's about to finish school, you know, and I'm like, just get through it, just get through it. I'm like it's, it's, you're checking the block, um, but but for me, you know, like I would. My teachers would tell me they're like you're one of the smartest kids in this class because the only reason why I got the gpa I did is because I was a test taker. I could just take the test. I never did homework and I would tell my teachers I'd be like listen, you've got me for like one hour a day.
Speaker 2:If you can't get all that shit done in one hour, you think I'm like I'm trying to get high out of the railroad tracks after high school or after school ends. You know what I mean. I'm going to hang out with my friends and be a kid. You got me for eight hours a day. You can't you know, like I'm stuck in this life, right here, you know, and it's very regimented and stuff. If that shouldn't give you very regimented and stuff, joining the middle, if that shouldn't give you an idea of like how joining the military was kind of an escape, cause I, what did I do? I went right into something that's even more regimented, right.
Speaker 1:They got you for more than eight hours a day. I'm going to tell you that right now.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you know, but uh didn't do very well in school, um and and high school. I should say Once I got to college, like I graduated, the honors and stuff, like I got a master's degree and all that stuff. But also it was a time in history where like literally they called it the dumbing down of America and like I feel like it just wasn't. It didn't seem like it really paid off to like, be, like, be intelligent or show intelligence in school.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Yeah, um, yeah. Free thinking was very kind of scoffed at, even in school it's frowned upon yeah, and it's just like this doesn't make sense to me, like you know, and so, like I said, I kind of saw school for what it was, even at a very young age. You know, and um went in the. You know, I was still 17 and I joined the military.
Speaker 1:So you graduated and went right into the military.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, like two weeks after that and I was in the reserves foot first, the national guard first, and then I um, I went active duty after after about a year of national guard. I was like this is, this is stupid. Like what am I doing? Like I come here one weekend a month and look at porn magazines all day.
Speaker 1:And that's literally what we did, because there was nothing to do yeah, you know, I came into the national guard in the late in 1999 and we were kind of on the the back end of that era, right, because we were just we were getting into the point where a lot of shit was about to happen. And I remember, like there was this, my very first few few months in, where what you're describing and then all of a sudden it was training, it was equipment, it was all kinds of crazy. So when were you in the national guard?
Speaker 2:So I joined in 97, a couple drills, um and then I. Then I went to basic training, Like literally I. I graduated high school and I think I gave myself about two weeks before I jumped on the plane and flew to Fort Leonard Wood, missouri.
Speaker 1:Oh, love that place oh yeah, it's lovely. Oh boy. So yeah, how was that for you? What was boot camp like?
Speaker 2:that for you. What was boot camp like? You know what for a kid that had like no discipline in their life or anything like that, you know, and like really never had anybody like like scream and yell at me or anything like I didn't grow up in that kind of household like where people were yelling and stuff like that. Um, but I it, I did. Well, I also learned also learned a lot of lessons in that, Like one of the very first lessons I learned in the military.
Speaker 2:There's a few of them, but even in basic training it was like above average. That's where you want to be Right, Above average. Don't be average because then you're just kind of, you know you don't stand out at all. You know you don't want to be below average because that's not good. You don't want to be this guy up here because everybody, especially in the military, they're going to try to cut you down at the knees and, you know, stab you in the back as much as possible. So just be above average. You know, cause a little trouble here and there and you know you know, but that's good. And the other one was always look like you're doing what you're supposed to be doing when you're supposed to be doing it and nobody will ask you any questions. And I call that the serial killer effect.
Speaker 1:It's like the old adage where, like, if you work in corporate America, if you walk around with a clipboard and a pencil and look like you belong there, they just leave you alone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pencil, yes, and look like you belong there. Yeah, they just leave you alone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these days you could throw on a little was those reflective vests and just walk into anything, yep, and you could start ordering people around and they would just I've seen it on tiktok, it really happens so. So do you think part of it, like when you got to basic training, I mean, you figured it out pretty quickly, but do you think there was a party that was kind of craving that sort of discipline that the military offered, or not?
Speaker 2:you know, honest question no, it was very yeah, it's great, it's a great question. When I was a kid, when other kids were reading dr seuss and clifford and shit like that, I was reading books on warfare and I I loved, like gi joe, and I just I thought that was just the coolest stuff, you know, and we always played things like cops and robbers or called it guns or whatever you know, and like we were so broke like literally one of the guns that we used was just a sideways turned um gi joe jet. It just held like a gun. You know, I mean, that was just our imaginations. We were young.
Speaker 2:I mean we were young and poor as fuck you know yeah and so, like I, I always kind of glorified that like that was the, that was the era that, um, um, you know, platoon came out and you know all those, all those war movies and stuff like the ones that are, just so you know, people still refer to these movies all the time.
Speaker 2:You know, and so you know, and that was vietnam stuff, you know, and even in high school I took a v a class on vietnam. I knew what I was getting into, because if anybody's pretty salty, it's fucking vietnam vets, man. You know they were. They were done pretty badly yeah, they were done dirty yeah, and I knew what I was going into. And don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that I don't weren't. It's not that era for me you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean, um, but you know, I did, I did always idolize that, the military and stuff like that. So, yeah, I did, I did have this. I think we all have the idea of what the military is, and then we get in it and we're like, oh, oh, that's what it is, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:All right. So you make it through boot camp and then do you go to AIT right from there.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, and what was your MLS?
Speaker 2:So I was a machinist back then.
Speaker 2:And it was a 44 echo and now I think they're like 92 golfs or something like that, I don't know. Um, and I, I love that job because I did that. I did voc school my senior year. I did vocational school and so I did a, I did a machine course, so there was nothing I had to learn in that school. It was great, you know. And um, I just thought, you know, it'd be cool to be a machinist in the military and uh, um, it was. It was kind of a bad job.
Speaker 1:It wasn't what you thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2:No, I did a lot of welding and stuff and I, you know, I learned a lot of stuff. I learned I learned how to take jack shit and turn it and turn it into something. You know, because that's what you do as a machinist and that's specifically what you do as a machinist in the military. You know you, you become a a problem solver on a scale that most, that would blow most people's minds. You know what I mean, and so that's one thing I always liked about that kind of job.
Speaker 1:So okay, and how long?
Speaker 2:we'll lead into how important that is, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I can tell you, it was that kind of thinking that saved my bacon more than once on deployment, cause you had people that could could get shit done with nothing, so I completely got it. So how long was your AIT for you? Was that a couple?
Speaker 2:of months, five and a half months.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, and then you pack up all your cool stuff and you come back home.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Yep, and then I was home for a year.
Speaker 1:And you enjoyed drill weekends. I understand.
Speaker 2:I do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you just kind of did that thing for a year and then you were like, screw this, I'm going active duty. How did that all unfold?
Speaker 2:Well, I was, you know so, a little back history on my hometown. There was actually an HBO documentary made on this town about back in the nineties when all the industries started outsourcing and going overseas and stuff and like this town just over, almost overnight, went to shit, went from this bustling um town that, like our, we had a big gm plant there and during the wars and stuff they would make weapons. You know so, like this town has some places that have like bomb shelters and stuff, because it was like they thought there might be nuclear strike at certain times. And then, I'm telling you, overnight it's like a crack town and people can't sell houses. Nobody wants to live there.
Speaker 2:I think some of the like the housing market got down into like you could probably buy a house for like thirty thousand dollars there, wow, you know. And like a nice house too, you know, because it was just they couldn't get rid of them. Um, but you know, growing up in that environment and living, you know so, the one going back to like the military and stuff and also being a machinist and things like that, it's kind of gives you a little history on, on, on, you know it's, I'll tell you the the the documentary is called dirty driving, if you want to look that up.
Speaker 1:I'm going to check it out.
Speaker 2:My brother my brother who died that year, um, and my cousin, my cousin's one of the main characters. His name is Brandon and he's like one of the main characters of the show and so, yeah, it's kind of what I had to go back to when I was in a national guard.
Speaker 1:So it was kind of a double whammy, right? If I'm getting the picture right here, because I know here everything revolves around the automotive industry, like, if the automotive industry gets a cold, everyone sneezes. So you come back If I'm reading this right, you come back, you're in the National Guard, you're not really happy with the Guard anyway, but then there's really nothing there for you to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and most people just kind of fall into that life.
Speaker 1:There's really nothing there for you to do, yeah, yeah, so it's most people just kind of fall into you know that life.
Speaker 2:It's one of those towns that just swallows people you know, and where I lived on the other side and Pendleton was a little better because we were, we were a little bit more connected towards the, the, the towns that were successful, um, so it was a little better, but still very much that was. That was how I was born and raised and kind of just how things were. Um, and you know, I'm, I'm back there and I'm there for a year and I'm like I'm looking for a job, you know, and I'm, I'm only, I'm drilling and stuff like that, and it's just not not working out. And plus, honestly, when I went on active duty, like a lot of my friends and I said one of the best things we ever did was leave home. One of the best things we could ever do for ourselves is leave.
Speaker 2:And a lot of people that stayed, they did great for themselves, they lived very happy lives and stuff like that, and I'm happy for them, I mean, because they're great. These are still my friends. But that's not what I wanted, you know, and that was my personal choice. It was just how I wanted to be, you know, it was just what I wanted to do and the military was kind of an outlet for that as well. And and obviously going on active duty would not land me being in Indiana, you know, waiting to go to Bosnia or Kosovo, you know, and then later on go back to back rotations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, so active duty was definitely a much better choice.
Speaker 1:So you, uh, you went to the recruiter. You got your release from the guard. It sounds like where did you, where you know, where'd you go first? Like.
Speaker 2:Fort Benning, georgia Benning.
Speaker 1:Georgia man, you're just hitting all the high spots. Although I'm a big fan of Fort Benning, I got to be honest with you I love going there, but I was never stationed at Benning, so maybe that's why, yeah Well, benning's cool because it's not a terrible location.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's what is it? Chattahoochee Valley, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:But you know, you're not far from the mountains, you're not far from Atlanta. I used to go to Atlanta every weekend. I was a big raver so I'd go to raves and concerts and stuff and I had honestly, I had way more friends in Atlanta than I ever did on base. Oh okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are these non-military friends like you, or are these military friends that just happened to be?
Speaker 2:in Atlanta. Some of them were military, but a couple of my friends from high school moved to Atlanta, so we hung out and then I had other friends and going to raves. I mean you just meet a lot of people, you know Everybody. Those things are super cool and I grew up going to raves.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Started going when I was like 14.
Speaker 1:It's kind of your thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so the music's awesome.
Speaker 1:though I'm going to, I'm not going to lie. I just love the. I like the whole, like continuous music that goes on. I'm not a raver myself, I'm a few years older, um, but I love that music.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's cause I like disco music and I think it's very similar.
Speaker 2:You know, I think I think y'all up in michigan what is that?
Speaker 1:forest festival, I think I don't know like a three-day rave.
Speaker 2:That's up there. My buddy's going this year. He asked me if I wanted to go and I was like we already got tickets to some other stuff and I was like but it sounds interesting. I heard it's a good party. Should you check it out one day, why not?
Speaker 1:yeah, I'll go drag my retired butt out there and you check it out one day, why not? Yeah, I'll go, I'll drag my retired butt out there and go check it out.
Speaker 2:I see a lot of older people and it's. It's nice, because when I was a kid you didn't, you know, you didn't see older people. And then you know, now you see people well in their like fifties and sixties, on a raise and having a great time and everybody's super loving and accepting. That's the best thing about that community. They're just. They don't give a shit what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I think that we're probably the older people that we didn't see when we were going right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I, you know, I want to ask a little bit. So you, you get, you get into active duty. Um, you're getting a regular paycheck now, um, you know, by no means anybody on active duty rich, but this has got to be a lot different from where you were just coming from, and how did that impact you?
Speaker 2:Um, well, you know, growing up broke and not, I mean I knew I knew a little bit about managing my finances, but not really like I was given allowance and stuff and I I would you know. I think that that kind of stuff is important. Um, but yeah, once I started making money, I just started spending money.
Speaker 1:The more you make, the more you spend right.
Speaker 2:I know it's like and I, you know, I fell into the credit trap for for a little bit you know my deployment I paid off my. I literally paid off my credit card after like my first or second check and and during my deployment and I cut that shit up and scattered it in the window. I was like Nope. I was like those things are not for me.
Speaker 1:Never doing that again, ever Right. So, when you went on active duty did you do a different MOS, then Did you go to a different AIT.
Speaker 2:So you're still. I did state of machinists. Yeah, okay, so you're still a machinist on active duty, yep, and so, um, I worked directly next to, like, diesel mechanics and stuff and generator mechanics, so I learned a lot of different MOSs. You know, it was just learn how to turn some damn wrenches mostly, and I love turning wrenches, um, um, but, yeah, like I had, I was my first unit I wasn't very gainfully employed, um, sometimes, sometimes we had a lot of work going on and stuff to do, but uh, my second unit was a maintenance unit in Germany and that's that was I had a lot more to do there.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, so where was it?
Speaker 2:Engineers first. Sorry, so you're, you're in, you're in bedding, and then you go to germany after that okay, yeah, yeah, I was, I was at uh, from yeah, like three years, and then I went to germany okay, tell me a little bit about germany.
Speaker 1:How was that for you?
Speaker 2:I love germany.
Speaker 1:I love Jeremy.
Speaker 2:I did. I was, I was 22 years old and yeah, it's 22 years old and it was. It was just wild time for me, you know, and being a party type guy, you know there's always places to party and people are super cool. I like, you know, I'm just trying all the foods and stuff, cause you know, growing up in Indiana it's it's a lot of meat and potatoes and you don't really explore and stuff like that. And then I start going and hanging out in places like Atlanta where it's just like a hub of culture and food and stuff and you can try all the flavors of the world. You know, like before it was cool.
Speaker 1:Right, I want to ask you. I don't mean to interrupt, but I want to ask you too, because when I went to, I was at uh leonard wood for um officer basic course and there was actually this german restaurant outside the outside the gate. That was like legit german food. Was that there when you were there?
Speaker 2:no, I don't know. Oh, I never got to tour around, unfortunately, oh well, lucky you we'll share some stories about that after we talk, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're in Germany, you're enjoying the food. Are you a warm beer or cold beer guy or not a beer guy at all?
Speaker 2:You know, back then I did drink. I would drink either. To be honest with you, I've always been a beer snob, though I was a guy that I went to the party. They're like, oh, we're having a kegger this weekend and I'm like, what kind you have? And they're like coors light, I'm like who needs a designated driver? I'm like, but and you know, I, I, I would always bring my own beer if I, if I, were going to drink. But I was never really a big drinker. I went through a phase of that, but, um that you know, I scored this sweet scar right here after the data got promoted to E4. I use my, my face as a door knocker.
Speaker 1:Oh nice. Was that in Germany, or was that at stateside?
Speaker 2:That was in Fort Benning. Yeah, that was a story to tell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll bet, I'll bet. So that was a story to tell yeah, but I'll bet.
Speaker 2:So germany was good for you. Then you enjoyed it there.
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:Okay, anything stick out about germany that, uh, you want to share I, I really like history and so I loved how much history was in a place like that. You know, I, I laughed and I, uh, there was this bar. It was like 700 years old, you know, and we used to hang out in this bar and the uh, the bartender, one time he was like you Americans, he's like, he's like you know what he's like that bar still was older than your whole country.
Speaker 1:They give you a little perspective. Did it?
Speaker 2:I got nothing for that.
Speaker 1:You know, I got nothing for that, you know, right I?
Speaker 2:was stationed in a place called bomberg and, um, it was one of the places that didn't get blown all the shit during the wars, and so, um, um, it was just very rich history and they had. There was a cathedral there, there was like a monastery, a rose garden, and just there was just so much to do there too, because there's a cathedral there, there was like a monastery, a rose garden, and just there was just so much to do there too, because there's a shit ton of breweries it is germany yeah, and and it and it was, um, it was, like I said, just food everywhere too, you know.
Speaker 2:And so just a much different it was, it was my, it was being immersed in a whole different culture, you know. And so just a much different it was, it was my, it was being immersed in a whole different culture you know which. Growing up in.
Speaker 1:Anderson. Indiana you probably weren't going to take any trips to Germany anytime soon.
Speaker 2:Probably not, you know. And so and then traveling around while I was there, I went to a couple other countries and stuff, but like I said, I just I just really enjoyed it. It was just, it was a fun place yeah, it sounds very cool.
Speaker 1:The one place I've never been. I've got a really good german last name, but I've not been to germany yet, so I have to check it out sometime. So you, you're there for about three years, and then where do you go from germany?
Speaker 2:um, well, while I was in germany, that was um of1. Okay, we were part of the initial invasion of uh, of Iraq during that time. And uh, so yeah, we were, we were I think it was March 3rd March 3rd we deployed to Kuwait and we were, you know, getting all our stuff ready in there. You know, like like we're alerted and this is happening, you know. And then you know, then we start pushing across the border and all that stuff. Um, but yeah, it was part of the invasion of Iraq.
Speaker 1:And this is, this is when they're using, like soft side Humvees and can't, can't, bearing doesn't exist. This is the real deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is uh. This is why I mentioned earlier why it's important to uh be a problem solver and we, uh, we up armored our own vehicles because we just welded the together with stuff we confiscated from the iraqis. So we um, when we landed, we landed in an area called. It was called camp dogwood. It was south like east of fallujah and it got closed down. I think think it closed down in October of that year or it became like a training camp or something like that, but it was no longer like a, a base where a bunch of soldiers were, but we were in this little one, this little compound, but next to us.
Speaker 2:We call it home Depot because they had I mean, they had it was like a machinist heaven, seriously, because they had drill presses and lays and and just everything, bandsaws, everything we could possibly need to run a shop.
Speaker 2:And then they had stocks of metal there too, and so, like we, you know, we started making like gun mounts and stuff like that and then started. Then, later on, we started taking sheets of metal and cutting it up and with doors and everything and just and putting it on the sides of the vehicles, and my first I was a machine gunner at the time. So, um, my first, my, uh, not my first gunship, but my, my. It was one that we'd all welded together and it was like it was like a pole with the rifle on it and then there was a counter, a counterbalance shield kind of piece of metal, and then it was on a, it was like a two-way and then it had like kick plates so I could spin around the gun mount and then swivel with the, the rifle too so it sounds really everything, because that was useful sounds eerily similar to how our home v's were set up when they were really set up for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you guys were doing it before. It was cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think I think we we up armored the, the vehicles in ours and our unit, but then we up armored I don't know well over a hundred, some odd vehicles and other units and then later they ended up just distributing the plans and all that stuff and, you know, other units started making.
Speaker 2:We started seeing armor you know, because we didn't, like I said, we didn't have shit right and I deployed with a flak vest, mind you, yeah, like I didn't have a iba with body armor and all that shit, like anything above, I don't know like a nine mil round would go right through that damn thing so we weren't really well prepared for that no not at all and I you know.
Speaker 1:I would say, with the work that you guys did, you probably saved a few lives I'm sure you know.
Speaker 2:I mean you know what the, the, uh, the, the. The landmine plan was to throw sandbags in the floor of your soft skin, humvee, so you get dust and rocks as projectiles in your face to shred you to bits instead of a mine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sounds like a wow, what a great plan.
Speaker 2:I know Sounds like a fucking plan to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every time I talk to guys that were there during the initial push, I just shake my head because I'm like man, you couldn't get anything done unless you had an up-armored humvee. That was like driving around in a bank vault, but you guys were just doing what you had to do, because that's what soldiers do yeah, yeah, I mean I'm here right, right, exactly. So that initial, that, uh, initial invasion. Though how, how long were you there? 12 months okay, so you're there for a whole year yeah but you were.
Speaker 1:Was it a constant movement thing or were you like at that base that you were working out of?
Speaker 2:um, so I was mostly there. I was there for the first six months and then, uh, went up to anaconda, which is up in balad, which later came, became like a really like main hub. I think it's still. Most of it's still there, um, or whatever, I don't know if. Anyway, um, but yeah, I was there the second six months and, um, that was an interesting place, but I did, I, during that time I spent a lot of time on the road too. Um, we did convoy security mostly.
Speaker 1:So yeah, anaconda became like a uh where you would get stuff that you couldn't get. Like if we needed parts or whatever, we'd fly our our supply guy over to anaconda. He'd spend a couple of days.
Speaker 2:He'd collect up all the shit we needed yeah, buy up was the only other place you can get shit too, yeah we were in northern iraq, so buy up wasn't really an option, unless we absolutely had to have something.
Speaker 1:But we never had to have anything like that yeah yeah, so that I mean, did a lot happen on that first deployment, or was that uh, would you call it a quiet deployment?
Speaker 2:no, I mean, they were still bombing. You know like that was, that was interesting. You know like we got to see things that other people didn't get to see. You know like they stopped bombing after after a few months. You know same things like A-10s and stuff ripped through villages Right, which is interesting as well. You know Apaches and things like that. You know, Um, and there there was the especially back then we didn't really have IEDs Um, IEDs started to become a thing right before we left and had had some near, some near misses with that.
Speaker 2:Um, but mostly it was the mortars and Chinese rockets that we would get in the bases almost nightly. Um, you know, and it's it. I mean it was like it was almost every fucking night and it was to the point where it's like just let me sleep, man, I just want to sleep, I don't want to go to the bunker, can I just stay here? Like if I die, I don't fucking care, like I'm gonna die if I don't get any more sleep you know, um, but yeah, like like that was, that was kind of the worst of it.
Speaker 2:You know you get shootings and stuff like that, of course, like you get shot at and you know firefights, that kind of stupid shit, but nothing, nothing to the level like we weren't in the cities most of the time, like we, if we were going through the cities, like sometimes we would be in that and you, you know, and their tactics are always just pop off a few and then take off, type of deal. So you know, um, other things were just like. You know it's the beginning of the war. So as we're pushing through, like you see the aftermath of, like the infantry, a lot of you know bodies and fucking burned vehicles and you know shit like that just everywhere.
Speaker 2:And and you know shit like that just everywhere and and you know that was interesting, but yeah, yeah, um, most of the times, most of the time, um, I wouldn't say it was very quiet, right. Right, it wasn't nearly as bad as like being in this inner cities or something like that, or or even um. You know the surge or even you know the surge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like I had friends that were there during the surge and it just became like a total shit show. Pretty much the whole damn country was, you know, kind of lit up with action, you know, especially in certain cities.
Speaker 1:It was a busy time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:So did you go back to Germany after that deployment? Then yeah, all right. And then how much longer were you in Germany? So did you go back to Germany after, after that deployment?
Speaker 2:done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. And then how? How much longer were you in Germany, or did you go someplace after that?
Speaker 2:Uh no, I, I did Um but I left. I left the military with a pretty bad taste in my mouth, Like I did not ever think I was going to go back in Um and uh um 2005,. Beginning of 2005,. I got out and I knew I wanted to go to college, so I 'd already kind of started that. But I'd gone back to Germany. I think I was back for six or seven months and they'd already put me on orders to go to Fort Stewart and we were already been attached to third ID during deployment and they were basically turning around and going right back and I was like no, you want to know part of that.
Speaker 2:No, no, I was like I had an. You know, I I would you know when I say that some really shitty decisions were made and a lot of like, like it was. I was pretty surprised. No, nobody in my unit died. No, you know, we actually had to start having problems when we got back. That's which is, you know, most people's story um yeah, we lost.
Speaker 1:I lost more of my soldiers. I didn't lose anybody when I was deployed. I brought them. I brought all my guys home, all my gals home. But um yeah, we started losing them after we got back yeah, that was the hard part it's the hard part, yep so you say like I'm not doing this again. So you decided like I'm getting out yeah so you got out. Where did you go back home? To indiana, or where'd you go from there?
Speaker 2:no, I went to. I went back to atlanta. Actually. Okay, you know, I actually had a couple couple options. Um, I was looking at art schools and stuff and I was, I was looking in either chic Chicago cause I used to party in Chicago a lot, you know but I didn't really know anybody up there, you know, whereas Atlanta I'd already built a community. You know, like I said, I knew I knew more civilian types than I did the military types when I, you know. So I had a community there, people you know, so I could couch surf if I needed to. I lived with my friends most of the time when I got back and through college and stuff like that, and I liked Atlanta, especially in the early 2000s. It was a cool place During the dot-com boost and all that kind of shit. It was a cool place to be. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Atlanta is a very cool city yeah it's like a hub for a lot of major business, which means there's a lot of money there, which means a lot of stuff going on yeah yeah, so you, uh, where'd you end up going to college then?
Speaker 2:I went to the art institute um I actually my undergrads in media arts and animation, so yeah, what so?
Speaker 1:what were you? What were? What kind of what was your plan from that?
Speaker 2:The plan was to go into the industry actually you know um college was. College was interesting.
Speaker 2:Um you know, I was a 25 year old war veteran in a time when those didn't exist you know, and I was, of course, trying to process everything that I had been through, you know, like just gotten out of the military, you know, and just got back from a war, you know, and um, and, and, at that time especially, I mean I'm, I'm almost 45. And uh, when I was, when I was that age like 25, people thought I was like fucking 15, you know, they just I just always looked so much younger and so like going to school there, people are like dude, why is that guy so angry? You know, cause I worked there too, I worked at the college, but I was, I was just kind of salty all the time and it was like, you know, he was in Iraq like a year ago, right, and they're like what he's an angry veteran, oh no.
Speaker 2:In a time when those people, the only ones people knew, were Desert Storm and Vietnam, so very few people had been back from almost nobody had know, almost nobody had been back from Iraq, you know in the grand scheme of things, and Afghanistan. We'd only been a couple of years deep in that.
Speaker 1:So um, and that deployment changes you.
Speaker 2:It does You're not.
Speaker 1:You're not necessarily the exact same person you were when you left Right, Right.
Speaker 2:You know I mean it's, it's a different, it's just a different life. You know Right, you know I mean it's, it's a different, it's just a different life, you know Right.
Speaker 2:Um, but uh, started school 2005 and, um, I was 25 years old and started going to school and art school while I was, while I was, uh, while I was enlisted, I was there at Fort Benning and coming up to Atlanta. One of my friends, who was a really good friend when I was in high school, he was in the animation field and, like and like, I always kind of thought I would go down that route, you know. And so when I got out of the army, the first time that's what that's what I did is I went to school for animation and you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's really good work if you can get the work right.
Speaker 2:I mean that's yeah, yeah and um. Unfortunately, my school was one of those schools that was sued a few years ago for basically ripping people off and you know I walked away with a bachelor's degree that was. That at the time was kind of still worth something, but I spent like $110,000 to get this thing.
Speaker 1:And so, and you should be a dentist by then. That's a lot of money.
Speaker 2:It was very like it was fraudulent. What they did, you know, like they they were. They were sued. A lot of those, a lot of those loans ended up getting forgiven too. You know which really show, because the, the, the, the, I mean that was fraud, you know, really so. Because the, the, the, uh, I mean that was fraud, you know. And so, like that whole debate about that, you know, I was one of those people that got into that, you know yeah luckily, I did.
Speaker 2:I, I paid, I paid all my private loans off and then my federal went away whenever I got my hundred percent. Um, when that trump signed that bill, that know, and I'm extremely grateful for that, you know, um, because, as the story goes, I was, I was in school for like a little over three years, um, I kind of accelerated my degree and I uh, I graduated in December of 2008.
Speaker 1:And a time I you know and you know, that's a great time to be looking for a job or own a house, right?
Speaker 2:right yeah right, you know. And so I ended up going back in the army, because I put out hundreds of applications and the only call I got back was the army. And then I I ended up getting a job in the interim, which I ended up liking too, but, um, I ended up going back and I got a commission the next time.
Speaker 1:So okay, and where did you? Uh, where did you end? Where did you go? Where'd you enter back into the army? Did you go back to benning?
Speaker 2:I did. I did because, while I was in college, I had my daughter and her mom. Her mom and I weren't together and she lived up in in uh, north georgia okay so, um, I wanted to say it for benning, for her, yeah, at least be nearby.
Speaker 1:So I think it's awesome that, because many times I mean, this is a story as long as is the military's been around, right, someone gets pregnant, someone has a baby and the child never knows the dad. You know the they weren't really together, um, but it sounds to me like you have made it a point to be a part of your daughter's life.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean we were, we're, we're. When I say we're really close, like I've told her, I'm like I've known things about your life long before. You knew, like you know, like I, I just like, no, like she's an artist now she has her own business, you know, you know, and I knew she was going to be an artist since the moment she was born, you know, and I've nurtured that like her whole life, you know, because it's just, it was one of those things.
Speaker 1:it's like I feel, like I like I said, I just knew things about her you, but I knew I didn't want to be gone.
Speaker 2:Because, my dad moved away when I was like seven and then I rarely saw him again. I only saw him probably a handful of times. Well, I used to see him during the summers when I was a kid, but I mean as an adult, probably like a handful of times. Well, you don to see him during the summers when I was a kid, but I mean as an adult, probably like a handful of times, Right? Well, you don't develop that relation.
Speaker 1:If you don't see him a lot when you're a kid, you don't develop necessarily that great relationship. So you're at Benning. Am I going to assume that you somehow became an infantry officer?
Speaker 2:I did yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So what precipitated? That change for you, like, why? And not that there's anything wrong with it, I'm just curious because you're like you're a, you were a machinist, you went to, you went to art school, like you are clearly an artist who creates things, and I feel like the inventory is, like, from my perspective, a lot different than that. So, yeah, what was the attraction?
Speaker 2:It's funny. It's funny because I told, I told, uh, when I was, when I was a commander, um, my first sergeant was one of my best friends. We actually were platoon leader and platoon sergeant together. He frogged, I pinned captain, he took, he took a company, I took the company, he took a company, I took the company. You know, like it was. Just, it was an amazing, like you know, and and um, I, I always in like the end state is like like in the, in the, on the battlefield, like things are destroyed. You know right, you know so it's very much different than creating things.
Speaker 1:you know you're destroying things, but probably in a creative way at some level nothing to put, nothing to pin up, nothing to pin up on your refrigerator at the end of the night.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, so it was. It was not an easy concept for me to grasp to, to be quite honest with you, you know, like being in the infantry, like um, it was. It was good, though, because what I did enjoy about the infantry and that's the the whole reason why I joined the infantry is because I wanted the most time with soldiers that I could get you know, because I wanted the most time with soldiers that I could get you know. And so my roommate because he asked me, he was my roommate in OCS and he was infantry, went into ordnance and I was ordnance, so I went infantry. And because he asked me, he goes, well, what do you want to get out of being an officer? And I was like, well, I want to spend as much time with troops as I can. He goes, the infantry is going to, you're not going to spend any more time than in the infantry. And I was like you're right. And so, literally like the night before, I chose because we were OML list or I went to OCS.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's what I did as well. Okay, yeah, that was great. Great, I love those. Yes, it was. It's so much fun I was I was 14 years enlisted. I went to ocs when I was like 38. Oh, no shit. Yeah, I was an old fucker when I went to ocs. Yeah right, oh, yeah, you told me that.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, so you could get the like the top three and get the uh, the captain's pay as your retirement yeah, I know a lot of people will do that well actually your navy, your navy, not, no, no, no no, actually, so I'll share this with you is that I was Navy for 10 years, but then I was army national guard for 11 years.
Speaker 1:And so I was enlisted in the national guard for a while. Uh, and then, um, I didn't even think about the pay. Like the pay, the retired pay is amazing. I didn't think about that when I switched over. I was like I am tired of being the victim of other people's stupid decisions. Yeah, you know, I've been enlisted for a long time.
Speaker 1:I get how these decisions impact people. I want to be the guy making the decisions that impact people, because I I even though we have to do things that we don't want to do I understand how it's going to impact people. Yeah, and if I have to, if I have to, I can and go. Look, I understand this is what we're going to do. We have to do it, or I can say we're not doing this.
Speaker 1:But you get, there's something you gain from being enlisted when you become an officer. They don't like remove that part of your brain that has common sense in it. Right, and I love what you said about working with soldiers, because there is nothing like. I think that's also why I retired as a captain was because I was going to go to staff and I loved being with soldiers and in that green tab, time was about to be done, so it was just time for me to go, but anyway. So I'm with you 100 percent. Like being with soldiers is the whole purpose. Like sitting in an office being pissed about your job and hating life is not what you signed up for.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you branch infantry.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And so what happens from there?
Speaker 2:Well, in I-Bullock, which is our officer's school, the infantry basic officer school, I get orders to go to Fort Knox and I was like I want to stay here, you know, for my daughter. Um, otherwise there's no freaking way in hell I would stay in georgia or stay at fort benning or anything like that. I would have probably gone back to europe or something like that, maybe even asia or something that would have been you know um, but uh, stayed at Fort Benning and, um, my first unit there I went to. I went to sledgehammer, third ID, third brigade, and you know, being a prior Fort Benning soldier, I knew the reputation of third brigade and I knew I was going to suffer there.
Speaker 1:At least you knew it was coming.
Speaker 2:I did, I did, you know, and and that's probably one of those sacrifices my daughter will never understand, and that's where I met your son.
Speaker 2:Um you know, um, it became his platoon leader. Um, you know, he, uh, I enjoyed platoon leader time Actually. Uh, I, I got there. I got platoon leader time actually. Uh, I, I got there. I got there at the end of 2010, I think yeah, the end of 2010, at the unit, and I was up in the three shop because you know, that's where all the freaking officers go and I heard there was a platoon leader spot, and so I will. I like literally just walked over to the commander's office and I was like, hey, hey, sir, I hear you need a platoon leader. Well, I need a platoon and I don't want to hang out in three shops, you know right.
Speaker 2:It's that you know? It's that prior enlisted? It's like I don't need to be told what to do, like I'm going to go find a job or something Shit you know Well, and as a and as a commander, that's the platoon leader I want.
Speaker 1:I don't want the platoon leader that's there Cause he needs the time so he can punch his ticket, like I want the guy that wants to be a platoon leader, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know the guy who wants to be in front of fricking soldiers and not sitting at a desk, you know and you know, and so, um, yeah, so I, I did, I did my pl time there at third id. I was in hard rock company, which is our alpha company. I was in the uh, the audie murphy brigade, or audie murphy, um um regiment 115. So, uh, baker company, that's. That was his, his, uh, his company, um. But you know I loved being a platoon leader. It was hard, god, it was hard, you know, but I learned a lot of lessons during that time, you know, um it, it was one of those things.
Speaker 2:It's really weird because, coming from sustainment to infantry, like it took me a while to feel like I was infantry, you know yeah and so, like, I still still brought, and I realized how much of that machinist mentality in that that you know enlisted mentality, really helped as being an infantry officer, having that common sense, that that ability to solve problems, you know, and I enjoyed that. And the thing is is like, especially when I, when I first got there, I was a little timid, you know I, I just I was just always stressed out, you know, and I just didn't know how to manage that, that level of pressure and stress that they, they could put you under. You know.
Speaker 2:And also, you know, again, I was doing my best and once I once I got the hang of things and I kind of stood up on my own two feet. That's whenever things started. The soldiers started to respond better and the relationship became much better, and a lot of friends that I still talk to today are people that I led in the military and I think that, that, to me, says something you know and and and I.
Speaker 2:I always kind of led people in a way that was like I, I feel like it was. It was in a way that I'm just a cog in the machine, just like you are. It's just I'm the top cog that's causing you know like, but also I I've got a you know, a drive shaft at some level and I got you know right, you know. So I always wanted everybody to feel like you're a valuable part of this team and your things matter. But at the end of the day, I got to make the decision and and I, I'm prepared, I'm here because that's what I'm appointed to do. You know you, you don't have to like it. But no, at the end of the day, I had your best interest in mind.
Speaker 1:Well, I think one of the hardest parts about well, about being a platoon leader, but also about being a company commander is that no one sees the stuff that they don't see, Like no one sees the things that you kept from rolling. You know what I mean kept from rolling downhill and you can't walk around and announce that, oh look what I did, because that's just not good leadership.
Speaker 1:But, sometimes it's frustrating because everyone thinks that you're not. Sometimes they think you don't have their back, even though they know that you do, because they see the one thing that pissed them off they don't see the 50 things that you kept at bay so they wouldn't have to do stupid shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, and that's, that's a hard, that's a hard part about leadership. But as a former enlisted person, you kind of knew the things that, hey, we don't. We either don't need to do this or we don't need to do it this way, we can do this differently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so did you. I never wanted you know. It's kind of like how you are, how how you are with the kids. You know you don't want your kids to grow up in the life you did. You know, and I I very much felt that way, like I didn't want my soldiers to suffer from from shit that you know, shit rolling downhill. So yeah, a lot of times you know it, it was I always, I tell, I often tell people like if I worked, if I worked for you, you probably didn't like me. If I worked with you it was probably a good 50, 50, but most people that worked for me really liked me, not everybody.
Speaker 2:You know, cause I wouldn't expect that to be the case. You know I'm going to piss a few people off and I'm perfectly okay with that. You know I'm going to piss a few people off and I'm perfectly okay with that, you know. But you know, like most people, most people especially you know the times whenever I really started to get the hang of things and stuff like that, because I was not one of those guys that was afraid to be like no, I'm not fucking doing that, like I'm not, or you know, or, or you know I. I definitely wanted to come off as competent to my, to my leadership, because that was, that was my biggest, my biggest thing is coming off as a competent leader, because then it's just like they can't really they can swing their dick around in your face but at the end of the day, like it's, it's, I need logic and we have doctrine and things like that. So it's like you can always rely on those things and be like no, sir, that's not what's happening.
Speaker 1:You know right, you can let them have their Kabuki dick dance, but at the end of the day, you're going to you're going to have, you're going to have a good plan. Something logical come out Now. Did you deploy as a platoon leader, as an infantry platoon leader?
Speaker 2:No, actually I deployed right after that.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:We just went to Kuwait that time, so we were part of Operation New Dawn. Uh-huh, this was in 2012.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, right after I retired in 2012. Oh really, yeah, Nice, yeah, exactly. So you were a PL for what like 18 months? Is that your rotation usually, or?
Speaker 2:how does it work for you guys? I think I was like 12 or 13 or something like that. Okay, yeah, because I think you only do it as a year as a PL Okay.
Speaker 1:And did you roll into company command right from there?
Speaker 2:No, I went to the battalion S4 shop. Actually, I was a logistician and, to be honest with you, I liked being a logistician. I don't like logisticians.
Speaker 2:I got you, and I don't say that because I get along with a lot of them, don't get me wrong. I loved the enlisted ones. I loved most of the warrant officers, but not the officers 100%. Not the officers 100, not the officers. You know, uh, not 100, but I did. You know, uh it was. It was a very. I did like being a logistician though, um, because I was really good because I came from, you know, bumfuck Indiana, where you know we bartered everything and things like that, and so my job over there. I was at battalion when we deployed, but then I went up to brigade. While we were there, shortly after we got there, there was a guy who needed some like KD time or something, because he'd already promoted captain. I was still a lieutenant, yeah, um. So I ended up going up the brigade after a few months of being the battalion s4, um, and then um. Other people would remember that story very differently I'm sure they would.
Speaker 1:Everyone has their version of what happened, right?
Speaker 2:but just we'll. Just. We'll just put it as I. I caused a little bit of trouble and was kind of I can hardly believe that, Jimmy. Anyway, yeah, so I went up to brigade and my task. I was given a couple units to where my task was to find stuff for them, um, and stuff that they needed. So one of them was in jordan and the other one was in uae and so this is that this is 2012, mind you, right, right.
Speaker 2:So all this stuff had come back from um, come back from iraq, and it was um just dumped everywhere. The connex is full of fucking shit everywhere. And so I would literally go to my units and like, tell me what you need and blah, blah, blah and this and that. And they'd just give me a list of shit and we go fucking bolt, cutting fucking blocks and going through these containers. Or like we went over to camp I was at, uh, burying at that time and went over to virginia and there was just stockpiles of shit over there.
Speaker 2:And I just started walking into units and be like like who's in charge of all this stuff out here? And that's one of the cool things you could do as an officer, even as a first lieutenant. You know like I'd still. You know like who's in charge of all this stuff? Oh, that's my stuff, hey do. Hey, do you have X, y and Z? And they're like, yeah, and it was literally like this Well, since you've helped me, what do you need? And they'd be like, well, we need these. And I'd be like, all right, so literally I was just kind of finding stuff and just borrowing from John to pay Paul type of thing, and that was my job working as a machinist.
Speaker 1:I know that you had to probably swap and bargain and deal to get stuff you needed in order to get stuff done right up through what you're doing here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So, um, that was kind of that was like I said, that was kind of my job, at least for a few months, and then it got real fucking boring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, once you've solved all the problems, what are you going to?
Speaker 2:do now, you know, it's funny because I I I've had multiple. Uh, people tell me I'm really good at working myself out of a job and I'm like and that's kind of the point. Like, if anybody if, if you could do that and still get the same paycheck when you do the same fucking thing right, let's work really really hard right now.
Speaker 1:And then we thing, right, let's work really really hard right now and we don't have to work really really hard later on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah, yeah. So you were in, so you were in kuwait. Is that another? 12 month deployment then to kuwait? No, that was nine, okay, I think. Yeah, that was when they were doing those little nine road, nine month rotations.
Speaker 1:So yeah, because the war was over, right like, yeah, yeah, so okay I got you, so where did you go from there?
Speaker 2:from there. Yeah, just I went, I went back to binning and then it was one of those times when, you know, you get back from deployment and everybody's got to do shift change. So everybody, you know, and I needed xo time and this is a time where this unit would not let you go. They would. They like our, our, I think. I want to say our brigade commander got force retired after he got back. It was pretty fucking terrible, um, um. But this is one of those times where that, yeah, they just wouldn't let you go and, um, I got back and again, I'm not going to sit around and wait on the army to fucking get off their fucking ass and tell me what to do. So I start looking for a job in other units, an xo job, because all the jobs are taken you know, and so, um, so I find it.
Speaker 2:I find a job, uh, across post, over at the uh, because this is around the time they moved the cav and all and armor school down there. So there was, there was a unit, um, uh, called the. It was one to nine infantry and they owned like combative school and you know um, what was called the X four sniper school and all kinds of other stuff. Um, so I found a job down there in the X four as an, as an XO, and, um, I remember they didn't want me to go, and a DCO is talking to me. He's like well, you need to go find a job. And I was like I found a job, but another unit. He's like, well, you need to go find a job. And I was like I found a job, but another unit. He's like, well, they're not going to let you go. And I was like, why not? And he goes, he goes. Well, when I let, the commander said nobody can. You know, people can't PCS. And I was like, no, it's like how that works.
Speaker 2:I said, okay, I need an X? Xo job. Do you have an xo job, sir? And he goes no. And I said well, then you need to sign this. You need to get this signed so I can go to the unit. And I said, if you don't, I was like you know, I was like I'm gonna raise holy hell in here, sir, like I'm gonna start making phone calls to people you don't want to hear from, you know. And I was like you're fucking with my career, dude.
Speaker 1:You know it's like nothing personal.
Speaker 2:It was like all because you don't want officers to leave. Men, fuck you.
Speaker 1:You know. So the funny thing about that is, I think there's a, there's a guy right there who's lost complete sight of what you're supposed to be doing, because your job as a leader is to develop your other leaders to take on the next job, right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And to promote them and to get them there, it's not to keep them around.
Speaker 2:So you look good. Yeah, well, you know, I mean, like I said, that dude was, I think that commander was relieved. So when we got back, so many people were trying to jump ship like a bunch of people were trying to jump ship and it was it was like it was the point where it raised some flags and that commander was investigated and I think that's why he was I'm pretty sure he was force retired after that.
Speaker 1:That would make sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is 2013,. In a time whenever, right before, they really started cutting down.
Speaker 1:So how was your XO time? How did you enjoy that? Because I never. I was never an XO.
Speaker 2:Oh really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I uh, I uh went right from platoon leader to company commander, actually back to back company commands.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Um and then, uh, I did logistics for a little while and retired, but yeah, I never. But my XO when I deployed my XO was a badass. So I'm just curious how your XO time was.
Speaker 2:So I was. So the X4, the experimental force, they were this special unit that tests things for the military, right? So the companies make it, they send it to us, right? So you know, the companies make it, they send it to us. It's like a it's literally, it's literally, uh, uh. An HQ which is only about maybe 10 people and then one platoon of infantry guys.
Speaker 1:You know and then that's.
Speaker 2:That was the whole company. Um, but I was the XO for it. Not a huge, not a, not you know, not this screaming eagles or anything cool like that, but man, it was a. Excuse me, excuse me again. It was a good unit, like it was. It was fun Cause. Like where in the army do you get to go play with fucking toys like new weapons and shit and and you know optics and stuff like that? Like that's a, that's a lot of fun and get paid to do it, you know every day is Christmas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, seriously yeah, and so, um, I in that unit it it depended on the day what job I was doing, because I was a PL sometimes too, and you know, and it was cool because I got a chance to do both. And unfortunately during that time in my my that part of my life, I was going through a lot of shit outside of the military, in my marriage and stuff. So I feel bad.
Speaker 2:I feel bad for probably the way I was some of those times, even when I was a platoon leader, but we're all human, it is what it is, you know, um, but ultimately I I did make a lot of very strong connections in that unit and um, I had so much fun, like just when we were out there playing and just doing stupid shit in the woods and goofing off, like we went to, we went to, like, uh, we went out to Fort Dix for a month and just tested a bunch of stuff and then me and the boys went down to, we went out to, let's see, we went to Philadelphia together, we went to New York city. They were going out way more than I was, but but yeah, I was just having fun like that and just doing wild shit. Like when we went to New York it was wild.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll bet. Yeah so anybody get arrested.
Speaker 2:No oh luckily as long as no one gets arrested, it goes to the hospital. I considered it a win.
Speaker 1:I totally agree.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:So how long was that gig for you?
Speaker 2:I think I was there. I was there over a year, maybe a year and a half, and then I penned captain and so I was the same rank as the commander, as the XO. You know we already had a little bit of conflict going on as it was, but when I penned captain it was like, you know, it's like say something nowed captain. It was like, you know, it's like say something now dude, like you know, but you know, ultimately it wasn't.
Speaker 2:You know, when we became peers we actually were pretty cool together. So, um, but, um, yeah, that, that job. And then that was the job, literally, my, my, uh, the platoon sergeant. He frogged to e8 and, um, I had penned captain. And I know, I know, still to this day, I never went to command course, um, but because I was in a trade unit I could take command and my first command was actually lieutenant colonel's billet.
Speaker 2:Um, it was in this unit called the net c, and so it, it was the unit. So if you, if you ever went through what they call op net and I don't remember what the other branches call it, but for infantry guys it's called op net and it's basically like, here's your Bradley, all the way up to this is how, how you shoot, move and communicate a platoon or a company of Bradley's Right, right. So I owned, like as a commander, I owned all the units that did that, like all the guys that trained, like the National Guard, army Reserve, active duty, on all of those vehicles, whether it was the Bradley Striker or Abrams tank. That was a cool fucking job, you know, and unfortunately I only got to hang on to that one for like six or seven months, because I was a captain.
Speaker 1:Right, they need a lieutenant colonel in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they needed a lieutenant colonel and so I was just a kind of a placeholder and and the commander had told me he was like he's like you'll just be in there for as long as you can, and I was like going in I was like that's cool, you know. But I really liked that job and, like most of my, most of my uh, my um, the people in my unit were, um, they were all the old timers. Honestly, they were all like sevens and E eights. I had like I think I had like five or six E eights and you know a bunch of E sevens and a bunch of E sixes and very few lower enlisted at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these guys were. It sounds like these guys maybe knew how to get stuff done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the op net guys, um, you know, they go out there and they're trained, the units, but them being like senior NCOs and stuff like that. And like they looked at me and of course they think, cause I'm a young looking captain, even in my thirties, you know, because I'm a young looking captain even in my 30s, you know, I'm still a young looking captain, I think I'm some cherry ass captain. You know, my first start like pulls these guys to the side, like listen, he's looking out for your best interest. Guys, like you know, like I just came over here with him, you know. So I had somebody kind of vouch for me and then I started like I started implementing things that made sense. Holy shit, this guy's doing things that made sense. Holy shit, this guy's doing things that make fucking sense.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so, like you know, like immediately kind of grabbed the, the, the E, eights and stuff like that, and they, they understood like what I was trying to do, you know, and and they, I guess the guy before me and the, the leadership they had had, that the, the commander and first Sergeant were just not good. So, um, but you know, john and I go over there and like we're already, we're already homies, you know, we watch movies together and hang out as families and shit, like you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was, it was good time. And um, I did that for six months and then actually it was. It was weird because we were on a, we were on a training exercise and I just pinned captain, and um, and uh, we'd done a training exercise and I I the the commander was pissing me off and I did something to just show my ass right during the training exercise and he was pissed. He was so mad and he comes up to me later that day and he's like Colonel wants to see you. And I was like and I'm just like, you know what I've earned this, I'm fine with this, whatever happens, I'm fine with it. I go to the colonel's office and he's like, hey, you know what I've earned. This, this is, I'm fine with this. Whatever happens, I'm fine with it. I go to the Colonel's office and he's like he's like, hey, you know, you know the net platoon or the net company. And I was like, yeah, he's like. He's like they're going to, they're going to they were good, force retiring the dude that was there, right, the Colonel that was there. And they're like, yeah, they're going to force retire him. He goes and they're looking for, they need somebody to take the spot and I was like I'm sitting there, like I'm thinking it's Lieutenant Colonel's business and I'm thinking he's going to, you know, I'll be the position, but they do have a captain. That was the XO there, you know. So I'm thinking maybe that's it or something like that. Not even that, I'm not even thinking that, it's not even on my radar. I'm thinking I'm going there to get my ass chewed out, right. But like, but he's like you want to take command of it. And I'm like, yes, yes, sir, I do. You know, like, like you know, I was like that's cool and so, yeah, I took that job and then, like I said, did that for six months and then I think I was in the three shop for like a month and then one of my buddies he was the commander of it was delta company.
Speaker 2:Back then they kept this dude in command all the way up until he was supposed to clear. He was getting out of the army and I I was in his office and I was like I was like dude, aren't you getting out of the army? Like soon. He said yeah, and I said, well, shouldn't you be clearing? He's like, yeah, I should be. And I'm like why aren't you? He goes. I was like why are you even in command, dude? You should have been out of command, really realistically, a year ago, but you know, at least six months ago. And he's like they have nobody to take me and I was like I'll take your position. I was like fuck it, dude. I didn't really. There was a part of me that was like do I really want to go into command again?
Speaker 2:you know, and there's another is like, because I was already on the fence about getting out and like, literally, literally a month prior to that, my wife and I decided we're going to divorce. And then we're going. Then, like, literally as I'm doing, change of command, I found out she had had she'd been having an affair on me.
Speaker 2:You know, like right before the divorce, and like, and I'm just, like, you know, out of my mind, fucking, you know. And so, um, I take, I take the command of his company and he, literally, I literally, he hands me the guide on we change command and he goes and picks up a fucking clearing packet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had it, you got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like this is crazy. Why would they do that, you know, so they had captains too. That was the weird thing, because I was like I'd been up to the three shop and there was, there was captains up there that you know. There's captains in my and one, two, nine, the unit that I was in, yeah, circling like vultures needing command right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know and so I went in. I went in and was like I'll take this command, you know, and so they gave it to me, um, and so, uh, I had, uh, I took what was it? Delta? It was delta 129 and we were. Then it turned into um 116, cavalry and we were the bastard children of the cavalry unit. So that's always fun to be, you know. Yeah, um, I was in, I was the, we were. It was like being the bastard child and a cavalry unit and a and a and a unit that's full of, yes, men oh, oh, yeah, oh, good times, yeah, no, thank you yeah, and I was, and because this is the drawdown time, like this is the, you know, and people's people are very, very um concerned about their OERs and things.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question real quick. I don't want to interrupt, but I'm just curious. Do you find that people who are concerned about their OERs are the people getting shit done? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Not, really no.
Speaker 1:Because you strike me as the kind of guy who doesn't really care what goes on as oer you're going to get shit done in.
Speaker 2:Your oer takes care of itself, right yeah, yeah, you know there is a, there is a line there because I I will say that I knew people that knew how to navigate that system and they could do both yeah I just wasn't that person. Yeah, just, you know. Call it a character flaw, I don't fucking know.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean Sounds like you had a pretty good career though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and that's the thing, like I did my best, you know, like I would say as a commander. So I was in the. We called the first unit that I had the Land of Broken Toys. You know, because the guys that I had, they were trainers, they were in TRADOC. Why had they were trainers, they were in trade off. Why? Because a lot of them.
Speaker 1:I had guys that had fucking shrapnel stuck in them.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of bullet wounds. You know these guys have been shot the fuck up and blown up. You know, and, and you know I have my my commander come to me, my brigade commander came to me and he was like well, why aren't you putting these guys out? And I said, sir, do you realize how many years of combat experience I have in my unit, in my company? I was like how many years of combat experience these guys have? And I was like you want to take them and put them out of the military?
Speaker 2:I was like why would you do that? You know, I was like you're getting rid of. And now I got to pull somebody who's able-bodied off the line to bring them here. He looked at me like like fucking deer in the headlights, like I like the light bulb turned on but still the moth was just there beating its head against the damn thing, you know. And I was just like how did nobody, nobody thought this thing through, like no, I'm not gonna put these guys out of the military right right you know, so now?
Speaker 1:so now you're stuck in a position where, like everybody's, like the people who want to stay in are kind of jockeying for positions, so they don't get, oh yeah, so you don't get riffed out yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, in a time that, like I, I guess if you had bad paper in the military you're probably going to get put out, that was one of those times, you know if you had bad paper.
Speaker 2:You're probably going to get put out, you know. But then after that it seemed like it was one of those times it just seemed like they were. It didn't matter if you were good or or, as long as you weren't bad, you were. You were somewhat like it was just roulette, because it was like it was like they almost just went down the list of names and just just hit like, created some algorithm, like every fourth person delete you know, yeah, which is probably not far off from what happened I'm dead serious.
Speaker 2:I think so too, because you know it's it. I don't know it was. It was a really odd time to be in the military yeah you know, and it's very cutthroat and like I said it was, it was a very much yes man time now was this like 20, what 16 ish somewhere. 20, I would say. This is from 2014, all the way to 2016.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No 2013 to 2016.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so you know and the writing was on the wall with that. You know, if there's any intuitive gift I have is being able to see things from like a 30,000 foot level kind of you know. And you know, things in the world follow patterns. Everything follows a fucking pattern. We operate programs. You know everything kind of operates that way. So like you can see things that predict probabilities and you know, and like that was one of the things I was like it's going to get real fucking cutthroat around here you know, and just whatever you know, and um.
Speaker 2:So, going back to the command, I took that, I took the other command and I did that for I caused some hell in that, in that unit too, my commander, my commander, the uh, the xo, they did not like me at all um and I was going through the divorce. I was just. You know, I was trying to do what was best for my troops and outside of that I did not give a fuck yeah no, I was.
Speaker 2:I was going through a lot of shit, and my daughter's mom at the time was giving me a lot of shit too, and um, so I did that command for only about six months, seven, yeah, something like that, yeah, yeah. And then I had already put in my refrat that's what it's called Shit my release from active duty, paperwork, and so I was resigning. I wasn't resigning my commission, but I was getting off active duty.
Speaker 2:So I'd already put that in they had captains that needed spots. There's another one of those situations. They had people that needed spots and I'm like we're going to put people that need to be here, um, and they. They needed an excuse to, to, to um, to remove me, and they found it.
Speaker 1:Yep, when you turn that paperwork in, that's kind of a signal.
Speaker 2:I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't, I was not relieved for cause from that unit, but it was another one of those units that I was kind of like we're going to get. They're like, yeah, we're going to get rid of this dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause, like I said, I just never knew how to navigate that system, and my most of that navigation was like fuck you.
Speaker 1:That's not necessarily the best way to navigate.
Speaker 2:And you know, I knew, yeah, I knew what was going to get me in trouble a lot, but it's just the nature of who I am.
Speaker 1:You can't be anybody but Jimmy, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right so how long, like when you turn in that paperwork, how long between that and the time that you're actually released from active duty then I stayed on board, for I think I gave myself a little more than a year, okay, and so I stayed on, because that's really you're not supposed to give yourself any less than a year. It's kind of like a window. I guess you're supposed to put it in, so I just put it in around that time. Guess you're supposed to put it in, so I just put it in around that time. Um, I went after command, I went, I went to um, I went to the three shop and I was there for let's see. So I was going through my divorce. I'd already met another girl and I was. I was seeing her and um and um and um around May of 2015. So this is, yeah, this is 2015,. May of 2015. My daughter's mom, um, killed herself.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:So um, I went through that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's, that's hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know it was. That was a strange time for me. Like, talk about extremely stressful and stop talk about not giving a shit about. You know like I was, I was going through a divorce, getting out of the military and my daughter's mom, you know, kill herself and um that does she have, like, ongoing problems or was this just sort of a?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, so it was. It was one of those things. I kind of, you know, I met her at a really rough time in my life and you know, we kind of I would say we, we, we were young, I was 25 and she was like 23, 20, 22, 23. I was, of course, you know, come back from a war and all that stuff. It was. It was a really bad time and we met each other and we kind of trauma, bonded about shit, you know, and, um, she unfortunately drank a lot and um, that was that was something that and I knew she had had mental health issues, cause I think she was on Lexapro back then and, um, we had a good we we had when she was sober. We had an amazing relationship, you know, like when she was pregnant with my daughter. She was, she was really good to be around, you know, and she was always a good mom. She was always a good mom. She's just not very good at being a person, as you know.
Speaker 2:And I't mean that like you know, I just don't think she was given a whole lot of tools to succeed in that realm you know, yeah, so, um, but yeah, that that happened, um, and, like I said, that was that was one of the most stressful times of my life, and people like I tell people that story and they're like I don't know how you made it and I'm like, well, you really know, you really never know what you can get through until you're getting through it, you know oh yeah choice.
Speaker 2:You know you're, you're knee deep in in this shit.
Speaker 1:You're like well you know right well, you have a daughter to think about yeah, yeah, and that that was an adjustment too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, becoming a uh, not a uh. It wasn't a custody battle or anything Like all of a sudden I had my daughter like full time.
Speaker 1:Right. And how old? How old is she at this time, then? She's still eight, yeah.
Speaker 2:Still pretty young. Yeah, this is almost 10 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gosh, that's hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, um, that that was one of those things and I got. I didn't get a single phone call from anybody in my chain of command, nobody, except my friend who we were commanders together because I'm in the HHC now HH day. He called me and and my former chaplain from Kelly Hill was in the unit next to mine and he had caught wind of it and he called me and you know, not even my chaplain, actually I don't think we had a chaplain, so I'll give it. Actually maybe he was kind of acting as our chaplain at that time. But anyway, we, we, we had a good relationship, you know, and I appreciated his phone call.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, completely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but nobody else called and when I got back nobody gave a shit.
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm sorry you're going through that, but you know I was the current ops guy when that happened and they didn't take me out of that position which I kind of forced their hand on that. Whenever I just stopped doing anything and you know, the, the, uh, the s3 was like like bitching about it and I was like, dude, you have fucking nine captains in this office, man. I was like pick one. I was like I'm going through a lot right now, hom, homie, and I'm one foot out the door. I don't give a shit about this, I need to take it. There's only one thing I care about right now and that's my kid. And so, yeah, that was a really hard reality check.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, there's like a line in the sand there and you're on one side of the other. Either people are supporting you or they're not supporting you. That just that's. It's awful to have to go through anyway and then awful to have to go through it with that kind of leadership yeah, yeah, and so you know, as again, getting out of the military was a pretty bad taste in my mouth.
Speaker 2:You know for a second time you know, despite my better judgment, went into the National Guard for a little while.
Speaker 1:It all started there and it all ended there, apparently.
Speaker 2:You know, I think I did it mostly for the insurance because my daughter was very sick for a while, sick for a while and um, I did work in oil and gas after the military, um, which is like holy shit, that's the dumbest industry I think exist. That exists. You know, you think the military is bad.
Speaker 1:Holy shit, oil and gas is pretty, pretty bad I worked in the utility business for 28 years, okay.
Speaker 2:So you get it.
Speaker 1:But you know, here's the thing For me it was I can't complain Like it was a great job, put a roof over my head, it was a great. I made a ton of money working there, made a lot of really good friends. But it was very much like the military in that there are times where they will eat their young because things aren't going very well. And again, just like the military, you learn who you can trust and who your friends are and who the good leaders are. Um, but, yes, it was, but I know people who've worked in other industries.
Speaker 1:It's not like that but I would know because I spent my whole adult life in the military or working in the utility industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, oil and gas. The thing I didn't like the most about oil and gas, one like the fraud. The amount of fraud, waste and abuse that goes on is by far exceeding the military.
Speaker 1:I was like Holy shit, you guys like you know how do you, how do you sleep at night?
Speaker 2:Yeah, seriously, you guys like you know, how do you, how do you sleep at night? Yeah, seriously, like, like this we're here, we, this company exists to make money. Right, that's what we're supposed to do, like we're not. This is a taxpayer money, which is still a seems extremely abusive, but this is your money You're doing this with why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then the the other thing. The other thing that they really bothered me about oil and gas is like I thought the military treated me like I was a child, but the oil and gas is way worse and I was like, oh, that's crazy, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's part of that. Again, that's like when you go from the military to the civilian world. I'll give you an example. You know, as a company commander, I had 217 soldiers under my command at one time because I actually had a platoon of delta 124 infantry out of florida with me. Um, anyway, I go back and and, um, they're looking for a guy to be a field leader, right for like 21 dudes and dudettes. And I'm like they're like, oh, it's 21. You know, that's, that's a little bit outside of the span of control that we like people to have. And I'm like are you kidding me? 21 people, I could do that, like from my bed. Yeah, you know, I think I can handle this. They don't, they don't appreciate, yeah, what you know and can treat you like a child, because they just don't, they don't get it, they don't. They think you're out goofing off for the last, however many years yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know well the odds are. They might. The odds are probably bad, though, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. So how long did you stay in oil and gas?
Speaker 2:Oh shit, I was there for three years.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yep, and that was the last job I had actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what happens after you leave oil and gas? Let's and and um, so I, when I was in oil and gas, I was, I lived in houston and I fucking hated houston. I hated houston so much and the, but I'm glad I went to houston. I think the whole reason for me to go to houston was to find austin, and I really like austin and honestly, in the the main, after, after I lived there I probably lived there not even 30 days and my friend was like, what do you think of Houston? I was like I think I want to move to Austin, you know, yeah, so, um, yeah, it's, it's, I love it here and uh, like I said, I haven't.
Speaker 2:While I was in oil and gas, what I, what I did is I paid off all my debts, got my, you know like, I later got my school loans taken care of and stuff, but, um, paid off all my debts, uh, you know, I got my 100 permanent total. Um, you know. So when I was in, I did a lot of combatives and you know, in and out of the gym and stuff like that, and just put my body through the fucking ringer, you know.
Speaker 1:So you know one of those things well, I mean, it's hard enough to be in the military, but infantry like that ages you it does a little bit yeah I mean not, not, you don't, you don't look old, but your body probably feels way older than it actually is know I started having pains and stuff during my first enlistment back pain, knee pain you know like that's where ptsd, freaking, yeah, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2:Um, and of course that didn't really stop me from training in martial arts for years afterwards and you know doing all that stuff, like when I was a kid I used to ride bmx and I get, I go to metal shows and get in the mosh pits and I was 100, 120 pounds, soaking wet, getting manhandled and you know like fighting with people way bigger than me, you know, and stuff like that so like, put my body through the ringer.
Speaker 2:I've kind of earned, you know, in and out of the military. You know kind of earned the pain that I, that I get so um, but yeah, so like, like I've lived up here in Austin for almost six years now and, like I said, I love this place and I think the thing, I think this is the first place I've ever really lived where it wasn't racist as shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that about this place. Like you know, growing up in Indiana indiana, it's, you know my my high school demographic was like white and other right, you know what I mean, like everybody else gets grouped in this other, like small percentile you know, but everybody else is white you know and growing then in the south. You live in the south.
Speaker 2:It's extremely racist down there you know, and they just the way it is, you know. But and then outside of tech, outside of austin it's, there's some really racist places out there, you know yeah, I think you can find it anywhere.
Speaker 2:It's, it's a matter of just finding that place where it's not yeah and but here in austin, like it's a big hodgepodge of people and everybody's super cool and you know it's just one of those people, one of those places, you places you can run into anybody in Austin, like it doesn't matter who it is and like South by Southwest is going on right now, so this place is just packed full of people and celebrities are here and all that kind of stuff. And, honestly, if I wasn't working down there this last weekend, I would not go anywhere near Austin right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a. It's a busy time. It is the music's good.
Speaker 2:It is. Yeah, music's real good and, like I said, there's just I don't know. Have you ever heard of Andrew Yang? No, he ran for president a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know who he is. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I met him a couple years ago, had a whole conversation with him and stuff. Wow, yeah it was pretty cool. It's funny. I asked him a question. I said I was like I'm a combat veteran and I'm not even registered to vote, and he goes. He looks at me and I go how do you get a guy like me to register to vote?
Speaker 1:Right, did he have an answer?
Speaker 2:He asked me why. First.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like why? And I said I'd never believed in this system. I said I knew I didn't believe in it before I joined the military. I was like I don't, it's not really for me, you know, like I don't really do politics or anything.
Speaker 2:So I I actually recently I always consider myself a staunch anarchist oh but no, I think, I think I'm more of a tribalist, I I like, I like the like the small tribes type of lifestyle, you know, because that's that's kind of what I do here in austin is I kind of build tribes of people.
Speaker 1:So you know, everybody, everybody has their own way of of living. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to ask like how's your daughter doing and is she in school now or what? What's going on with her? If that's all right, yeah, she's.
Speaker 2:Uh, she's about to finish high school, Um, again, you know check the block type of thing, but she has a business. She, she, um, she has a business.
Speaker 1:She's going to business.
Speaker 2:She, she, um, she has a business. She's gonna start helping me work on my business and stuff like that. But, um, she is a phenomenal artist. She is so good like I I was an artist, you know like, I am an artist, just in a different way. Now, um, she, she surpassed me at probably like age nine, ten, you know just just really good, and now she makes costumes and stuff. That's what she does. Yeah, makes money on that's very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, does the does this time of year, like when the festivals and stuff are going on in austin. Is that a good time for her does? Is that the kind of costumes that she's making, or is this for like production?
Speaker 2:no, no, she actually makes furry costumes okay all right like mascot type things yeah, yeah it's. You know. It's funny because I, when she told me she was into furries, the only thing I knew about furries was the sex thing right, right.
Speaker 1:There's more to it than that, jimmy.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I was like, so I had to like do some research because my my I don't know maybe 11 year old daughters tell me she's into furries and I'm like, okay, so you know. Then then I got to and then I always heard it like, you know, because it's there, there are a lot of creepy people in that community. I'm not gonna. I will acknowledge that, yeah, you know. But there's a lot of really cool people, you know. There's a lot of really cool people in that community, to include my daughter, you know, and all her friends. Her friends are some of the coolest, like coolest kids. Like I was like damn, I wish I had cool, like I had cool friends, don't get me wrong but like we're all troublemakers. These kids aren't troublemakers, they're actually really good kids, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, that's, that's where it's important, you know, as a parent, to kind of navigate that and do what you did. You did the research and and you, you know you're able to support your daughter. Yeah, that's very good. So it sounds like you're. You've kind of you've gotten to the point where you're. If it's not your best life, you're living a good life anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, like, especially going back to living here in Austin, like she had everything not happened with her mom, then she wouldn't live here with me full time, more than likely. You know, I probably wouldn't live here either, to be honest with you, because I would have stayed in Georgia. But that part of that side of the family is very religious, very Southern Baptist type. My daughter's gender fluid, she's also pansexual. You know not the lifestyle she could have in that environment and you know, I'm like, like I look at like, you know, just like things to be grateful for and I'm like we live here in a place where she can be who she wants to be. She can be a fucking furry, you know. She can be pansexual and gender fluid, like, like I love hanging out with those people like they're great people you know.
Speaker 2:So you know, it's just really cool that that we just have all these like different cultures and things here, and that's one thing I appreciate about yeah, you found, you found your, you found a good community for you and your family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, at least for now. And uh, um, as you know, um, as we mentioned, as I mentioned before, um, I work, I work a lot with veterans and psychedelic medicine and stuff like that, because it's something I'm, you know, very passionate about. Um and uh, one of the communities I built here was a psychedelic hiking group, veteran hiking group and, um, a couple of my friends started it and you know, I I kind of just like started building that community and you know, getting the word out there and started like co-running it with these guys and we're all vets and you know we're we try to keep that community like very safe and allow people to allow that, allow people to get together and you know, if they need to work things out, work it out. You know, if not, we get out there and we meet early in the morning, we take we usually take mushrooms or something, you know something like that Smoke, a couple joints go walking and then, you know, we hang out and then we go grab lunch and then continue our Fridays.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, and I think it's it's it's like important to have a supportive environment when you're doing that sort of thing too. I know that. Uh, I've talked to veterans. It's been very helpful, for it's not for everybody, um, but but everybody's different. Everybody has a different way of dealing with things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know like there's a lot of. There's a lot of a lot to be said about, you know, getting back to nature and stuff like that, especially for things like PTSD Right? No? And and a lot of vets we like to isolate, especially when we get out of the military.
Speaker 2:I went through the phase where I was like I'm not hanging out with any fucking vets you know, and I went through that phase for quite a while and then I got involved in a couple of groups that you know, that you know veteran groups and stuff, and some of them turned out not to be so good, you know, and things were happening in these groups like people getting you know, like fights and rapes and you know other sexual assaults and you know shit like this robs.
Speaker 2:You know people getting robbed and thefts and stuff. It's just crazy shit. You know I'm like this is not. You know that is not the type of veteran I want to identify with. That's not the type of group that I want to be around. You know, and I and I think a lot of vets they get when they get out and they think that that that's kind of their options. They take whatever low hanging fruit that they can and then, you know, and then they get wrapped up in some shit like that or they fall right back into that life where they're drinking a lot and you know they end up the old guys at the bar, at the VFW, you know, type of thing.
Speaker 2:And I tell people I'm like you get to choose what vets you want to hang out with. You know you really do like, uh, obviously proximity is a big factor. You know, if I live in the middle of fucking nowhere, I'm not going to find a whole lot of people around, you know. But, um, most people can, can find at least. I think in general general population. You should at least be able to find three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, three people you vibe with, you know yeah, well, and you certainly surround yourself with the, with the, with the people who are like-minded or feel like you do but I, you know, I agree with the whole isolation thing.
Speaker 1:I know, when I came back from deployment, I would, uh, for a long time sit in my room with the shades pulled down and I didn't want to go anywhere, I didn't want to do anything, I didn't want to be around anybody and, um, it wasn't, it wasn't healthy. Um, but you have to be around the right people for you, otherwise that's not healthy either. Totally get it? Yeah, well, I want to. So, you know, as we wrap up our conversation today, you know, is there anything we haven't covered that you wanted to cover would be my second to last question before I ask my final question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. Going back to the communities thing, you know it's to anybody that would be listening to this is. You know the other community that I've helped build here was the veterans and entrepreneurship. You know it's to to anybody that would be listening to this is. You know the other, the other uh community that I've helped build here was the uh veterans and entrepreneurship. You know, um, and I think that I think that building those type of, those type of communities, not just for myself but for other people, and then giving people access to those, to those communities, like my net, I always tell people I'm like my network's, your network, like if you need something, you know and I know somebody that will that can help you, I will help you, type of thing. And, um, I've always found that to be to, to be very valuable, you know. That's why, you know, people want to see you succeed. You want to see the 60 type of thing. But, yeah, so the, the I used to work for this group called bunker labs and they, they, recently I was the, the city leader here in Austin for like two and a half years.
Speaker 2:They call it ambassadors. That was, that was a good program. It's. It's through the theF through University of Syracuse and I've done work with them too. I went to their. They have an entrepreneurship bootcamp they do once a year. Well, texas A&M does it twice a year now. But if you want to start a business you can go like sign up for that and get into that program.
Speaker 2:But Bunker Labs is more of a community within the city type of thing and that was a really. It was a really good opportunity to meet other vets and um, austin's becoming a big because futures labs here, um, army futures labs, navy whatever the hell navy calls their futures lab and an aft works, which is basically the air force future labs um, they're all here now. So we have a pretty strong military presence. And then Cabasos isn't very far, and then San Antonio has Air Force and some other stuff down there and cybersecurity and all that shit. But yeah, it's one of those things like I feel like when a lot of these people do isolate after they get out of the military, it's because they probably don't. And I think I'm guilty of the same thing. I kind of hit that low-hanging fruit of where am I going to find my community and you get a little disillusioned because find like the, the.
Speaker 2:There's a group called mission continues, which they do like community service stuff and team on and stuff. I found those, those groups, you find a lot of. You start finding really good vets. You know, um, and I did, I did some work with all of them, um, but yeah, it was very, um, very. It's a process very time consuming process, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's true, that's true. Well, one, one last question in um, uh, before we go, and that is, you know, for someone who's listening to this story uh, years from now, maybe, even when you and I aren't around, uh, anymore, what message would you have for them? Or what, what lesson would you like them to take away from our conversation and how you've lived your life?
Speaker 2:Um, probably the first thing I'd say is don't eat yellow snow. Um, um, no, I I think that, um, I think one of the biggest lessons I learned, especially being in the military, you know, doing psychedelic medicine and stuff like that and going through the experiences of that that I've had to is, I'd be like ultimately, we're all doing the best we can with the fucking cards we're dealt, you know, and sometimes our best sucks. It does you know, and to this day it still sucks sometimes. And I'll tell you a quick story about my weekend. My friend met me at the bar and got and I don't know if she had been slipped something before or at the bar, but she almost died in my arms. Wow, and had we not? Uh, we called nine, one one, but my friends, uh, I, I don't know. It's really weird.
Speaker 2:Um, about about a year ago, my friends and I, or my, uh, my girlfriend and I watched this documentary about fentanyl and after that I went and got some Narcan and I tried to carry them around. Well, I didn't have mine on me, my friend Ben did, and it was in his car and he had to run out there and go grab that to save her life, and it was one of those instances in life that I was uh, that, you know, it came out on top, you know, did my best. It really mattered, you know, but still to this day, you know, there's a lot of times where I'm not at my best, you know, and, uh, I think for anybody listen, listen to this is like you know, I guess, if he anybody's ever read, uh, the four agreements, the very first is not the very first one, but the third agreement, I think, is always do your best. You know, be impeccable with your word, always do your best. And I can't remember the others, I'll stop my head but anyway, that's actually the fourth agreement.
Speaker 2:but you know, I think most people are trying to do their best, even though shitty leaders in the military Well, anywhere you go, you're going to find good and you're going to find bad, right, yep, I know. Even the ones I didn't like so much, I still give them. Give them a little grace.
Speaker 1:There you go, all right. Well, hey, thanks for taking the time out to sit and talk with me today. It's been a real honor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really has no-transcript.
