Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
In a world where storytelling has been our link to the past since the days of cave drawings, there exists a timeless tradition. It's the art of passing down knowledge, and for Military Veterans, it's a crucial piece of their legacy. Join us on the Veterans Archives Podcast, where we dive deep into the heartwarming and awe-inspiring stories of those who served, no matter when or where.
Here, Veterans get the chance to be the authors of their own narratives. Through guided interviews in a relaxed and safe environment, they paint their experiences with their own words and unique voices. The result? A memory card in a presentation box, a precious gift they can share however they please.
But that's not all. These stories find a secure home in our archive, a treasure chest of experiences for future generations to explore. The best part? It's all a gift to the Veteran – our way of saying thank you for their service.
Tune in to the Veterans Archives Podcast, where history, heroism, and heartwarming tales come to life.
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Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
From Vietnam-Era Helicopter Aircrewman to Small-Town Police Leadership Pat Knight's Story
Vietnam-era Navy veteran Pat Knight takes us on an extraordinary journey through his life of service, sharing intimate details of his combat search and rescue missions during the height of the conflict. With remarkable clarity, he recounts his time as an aircrew member aboard H-2 utility helicopters, equipped with bulletproof panels and door-mounted M60 machine guns, flying dangerous rescue operations over the Gulf of Tonkin.
Knight's stories transport listeners directly into military life during the late 1960s—from his unexpected deployment to Japan where he remarkably discovered he and his father had slept in the same barracks twenty years apart, to the surreal experience of flying Bob Hope's USO tour and receiving a kiss from one of Hollywood's leading ladies. His vivid descriptions of tense encounters with Russian bombers during Cold War standoffs and the camaraderie that dissolved barriers between officers and enlisted men reveal the complexity of military service during this pivotal historical period.
The conversation shifts seamlessly from military service to Knight's 32-year career in law enforcement, where he rose from patrol officer to Chief of Police in Riverview, Michigan. His approach to community-oriented policing—treating youth with firm guidance rather than harsh punishment—demonstrates how his military values translated to civilian service. Rather than slowing down in retirement, Knight continues serving his rural Michigan community on emergency management boards and senior center leadership, fighting for resources and programs that benefit his neighbors.
What makes Knight's story truly remarkable is the thread of genuine human connection running throughout—from meeting his wife of 54 years on a blind date while stationed in California, to maintaining close ties with family across generations, to advocating for senior citizens in his retirement community. His parting wisdom reminds us that life inevitably brings challenges, but resilience, family support, and continued engagement with community provide the foundation for a meaningful life.
So today is Thursday, april 24th 2025. We're talking with Pat Knight, who served in the United States Navy. So good afternoon, pat, good afternoon. It's great to see you here today, great to see you. Thanks for coming. Certainly, certainly, it was a wonderful drive here. Actually, this is a beautiful, beautiful place to be. We'll start out pretty simple this afternoon. When and where were you born?
Speaker 2:I was born March 31st 1948 in Chambersburg, pennsylvania, which is near Gettysburg, central Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1:All right, so we're going to figure out how you got to Michigan then as we go through this conversation. So did you grow up then in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, my mother's family all lived together and they all moved en masse. My mother's family all lived together and they all moved en masse. We lived in a big house in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, all of us together on Green Street and in my mother's family, most of them moved to the Poconos. My father was different. We moved to a city called Sunbury, S-U-N-B-U-R-Y, named after Sunbury, England. Actually, in Sunbury there was a former fort, British fort there, and a British prison, and that's where I graduated high school in 1966.
Speaker 2:Now, did you have brothers and sisters? I had three brothers, brothers and sisters. And I had three brothers. Your mom must have been a very busy person. Yes, and they're all younger than me. I was the oldest. Uh-huh, actually they're half brothers, but they were never considered that. My father's, my adopted stepfather, but he was a fabulous, fabulous man. When he first married my mother, he grabbed me by the scuff of the neck and said come on, you belong to me. And when he always introduced us we were numerical I was number one, my brother Bert was number two, et cetera, et cetera. So I was always considered that. But I was very, very close to both my mother and my father and they took I did okay in high school, but it was. I don't know if I should continue.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:The draft, vietnam was exploding. Then I graduated in 1966 from high school, as I said, right, the draft was exploding and they didn't have the lottery draft, they had the straight-up draft and those that weren't in the military weren't married with children or weren't in college. This was a town of about a city of about 15,000 people and I got my half day off school in March of my senior year to go register for the draft and they were sucking people up left and right, you know, and everybody was, and they were drafting Army, of course, but they also I don't know if you were aware of it they drafted into the Marine Corps. I didn't realize that. Oh yes, they did. I think they counted it off as a joke, whether they did it or not.
Speaker 2:But they went 1-2-3 Marine Corps, 1-2-3 Marine Corps, 1-2-3 Marine Corps, and so I enlisted in the Navy to take care of and go to school and stuff like this. But I was having trouble with a girl when I was growing up and I enlisted in the Navy with the promise of nothing, I knew everything you know, and stuff. Oh yeah, and then when I was, I graduated high school June of 1966, as I said before, I graduated high school June of 1966, as I said before, and I was deferred and I went on reserve duty until December and I got sent to Great Lakes Naval Training Center four days before Christmas.
Speaker 1:Oh, let's talk about that. So Great Lakes, which is in Illinois, north of Chicago, it's wintertime and you're there.
Speaker 2:It was the coldest winter in the history of Chicago.
Speaker 1:they said what was it like for you stepping off that Now? Did you take the train or were you by bus?
Speaker 2:I took a bus from Sunbury, pennsylvania, to Harrisburg. I got on a train, I rode the train to Chicago and then I rode a local train to Waukegan, yep, and then I went from there to boot camp and stuff like this. But my mother is funny. When I was in boot camp she would mail me packages and she used to say she was a drama queen. She used to say when I would go to the post office to mail you packages, the tears would freeze to my cheeks. Oh, I could picture a mom saying something like that. And, like I said, my scores were great but I was mad at the world. Like I said, over a girl.
Speaker 1:I wish I had a nickel for every time I started a statement with. I had this problem with a girl, yeah, and I made this decision because of it.
Speaker 2:And. But I was blessed somehow I don't know how, or anything else, I guess. When I came out my scores were great in the Navy, my scores were great in boot camp and when I came out I was sent to Imperial Beach, california. It was a Naval Auxiliary Air Station at that time, naval Auxiliary Air Station in Ream Field, imperial Beach, california, san Diego. Okay, so it's out by San Diego. It is right, it's just south of San Diego, it's like Chula Vista in that area. It's right in there.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so I went to Helicopter Combat Support Squadron 1 there and I spent from April until end of September into October there. They formed a new squadron in HC-7, helicopter Combat Support Squadron 7, which was at that time it was dedicated to combat search and rescue home based at Sugi, japan big naval air station there, and I left there, left California in September of 1967 and went to the base was formed. It was at Atsugi, japan, at Atsugi, japan, and I went there and I spent two years there at Atsugi and I came home in October of 1969.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about some of your time in Japan. I know, prior to us doing the recording, you had told me this story about how you and your dad had actually stayed in the same barracks, like 20 years apart. Yeah, tell me about that.
Speaker 2:My father was in the Army Air Corps in World War II and they called it points. He didn't have enough points to come home and so he was in. I'm drawing a blank on his bases. He wasn't stationed at Atsugi, he was there a short time but when I showed him pictures of the base and everything else like this, we figured that we probably slept in the same barracks 20-some years apart barracks 353, and stuff like that. And that's where I went to school, there for air crew school. I started out in California but I went to school and finished up my air crew school in Japan Tsugami, not Tsugami at Sugi, japan, the naval air station there. And, like I said, we were in the East Camp they called it, and West Camp was all Marines and of course we would always butt our heads with the Marines and stuff.
Speaker 1:That's what Navy guys do yeah, and it's interesting.
Speaker 2:I met this Marine aviator. The East Camp was all Marine aviation and they had different planes and things like this there and I was out on the runway or the tarmac, tarmac yes on the tarmac and I saw this marine aviator and he came to me and he says why are we fighting?
Speaker 2:I said, well, because you're in the Marine Corps and I'm in the Navy. He said we're aviation marines. We don't blouse our trousers, we don't cut our hair. He says we're just like you guys. And I was very fortunate and everything and it was fabulous. We had at that time we flew in the H-2 made by command in Connecticut. It was a small utility helicopter and the Navy version was designed for utility and they modified it for search and rescue. They put in some bulletproof panels for the engine, the transmission, the pilot and the co-pilot. Had doors that snapped up. They were bulletproof doors. We had a little plate that we swung up and we could kneel behind it and stuff.
Speaker 1:So you knew where to go, just in case, but it was a small space.
Speaker 2:Right, and it was a good helicopter and we, like I said, it was a utility helicopter and stuff like this, and we then deployed to different areas of Asia from there.
Speaker 1:Was that your home base, then it?
Speaker 2:was Atsugi right Naval Air Station Atsugi, japan. We had a permanent detachment in QB Point, subic Bay and that was the jumping-off point for the guys for Vietnam. They would deploy aboard guided missile frigates. Like I said, there'd be an 8 to 10-man detachment, one bird, the guided missile frigate, had an asphalt steel landing platform on the tail end. The newer ones were upper level. They had that and we were there with that and slept where we could. A lot of times we slept in the cookers, cook's quarters of the baker's quarters. That was nice because for mid rats, midnight, midnight rations, they would bring us back food at night.
Speaker 1:So always good to have a baker on a destroyer or a frigate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is and this is nice. We, uh, we, we. We liked it a lot. We were very, very close, obviously, to our pilots. We weren't considered like officers and enlisted men, we were considered a crew and everything was great and stuff like this. I remember in the first storm it wasn't a monsoon but it was a pretty good storm and I was all upset because we kept rolling in the troughs of the waves and stuff and I'm guessing I was like pure white and this old bosun's mate was there, an old salt, and he goes hey boy, don't worry about a thing, because we only roll over so far and the mast snap off and it writes itself. But we also. When we were in the storms our helicopter was back on the little miniature flight deck landing platform and it was chained down. Well, the junior guy had to go out with a come along when we were in a storm and made sure that the chains were tight. So the helicopter didn't move and I was very glad that I got seniority quickly.
Speaker 1:So you weren't that junior guy that had to do that? Not very often.
Speaker 2:We rotated some around and stuff.
Speaker 1:So you were an air crewman, but what was your specific job?
Speaker 2:I was an aviation structural mechanic, an AMS, but I never worked in my rate because I flew and my NECs were both flight NECs and stuff and it was like it was air crew plus. Then it was combat, search and rescue the two.
Speaker 1:NECs. So you went to that SAR school, then the search and rescue school. Yes, I went to that.
Speaker 2:But then there was a different one. They came out later with SEER school and I went back to California from Asia and I went to the SEER school and we had switched to a two-engine model and so I went to a plane captain's school for the two-engine model and actually I was the first, I believe I was the first plane captain from the UH-2C, the two-engine model in the Western Pacific. And I came back to Atsugi and you know, kubi Point and Suik Bay, but we went to Sear School and I was just amazed at that with how they worked, that and stuff like this. And we had, you know, made sleeping bags and tents out of parachutes and it was in Warner Springs and we did all that stuff and then the aggressors would come through at night, tear our tents down and they had automatic weapons firing blanks, right, and they would shoot up the thing and start to get you gone and stuff like this. And we went there and there was a series where we had navigation and we were taught to navigate so we could find our way in case we were shot down. And there was a fresh officer I put it that way who knew more than anybody, of course, and we were going back and we went down and there's this barbed wire there and they said in the briefing don't cross the barbed wire. And I told this officer that and he said I'm a commissioned officer, you do what I say. So we went down over this hill and they were loading the prisoners into trucks and we were captured early.
Speaker 2:So we were there early in the compound and they put us in black boxes and they would have us kneel and cross our legs and kneel and bend over, and they would. They were like plywood stuff, like this boxes. They had different ones there and they'd come along and they seemed to. I'm guessing what they did was. I never asked for anything else like this, but we didn't hear a lot of people speaking English. They had, like these were all Navy people but they had like Mexican-Americans and they had like different other ones like this when they were around us they didn't speak in English and stuff. They'd come along and they would pound on the boxes and you'd have to recite your prisoner number.
Speaker 2:I remember the one time I got in too big of a box. I rolled over and fell asleep. They pounded on the box and they pulled me out and they whacked me. There was a Red Cross area that you could go and stuff like this and everything else and it was like a big, huge tent with a wooden platform and stuff. But there was a place that you could sneak out of and escape and another guy told me about that, so I would get that and if you escaped you got a ham sandwich and a glass of milk. Oh yeah, so we did that and stuff. But we went there and I think about it. I've been by there Warner Springs many years later. I just went by there just recently and saw the sign for Warner Springs for the city. I'm sure it's long closed. I thought about my time in Sears School.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably the best ham sandwich you ever ate there too, right, yeah, and stuff but uh.
Speaker 2:But then we went back. I went back uh, to uh, japan and we deployed and everything and we went on different deployments, um and and things like that and um, and then in in uh, we were in at sugi had. We were the only helicopter Navy helicopter squadron at Atsugi Naval Air Station and then they had all sorts of other transport squadrons and everything else like this. For the Navy they had a spy squadron VQ-1, fleet Reconnaissance Squadron 1. And they flew EC-121s and so they flew those out of there and did tracking into the Sea of Japan and over North Korea and things like that, and probably down into Vietnam, north Vietnam and stuff. Yeah, down into Vietnam, north Vietnam and stuff yeah.
Speaker 2:But in April of 69, the North Koreans I think there was like three or four North Korean MiGs shot down a EC-121 from Atsugi. It was not on a track, they usually ran with a flight crew of like 12. There were 31 people on board. There were a good number of people on board just for flight time. There were even Marines on board and they shot it down you can look it up and stuff like this because it was there and they went into the Sea of Japan and we were diverted north.
Speaker 2:I was on the USS Dale and we were diverted north and we were there and it was. I thought there was three carriers up there at that time, but there was a fellow here in Hillsdale that I met was on another aircraft carrier. He said no, there were four carriers up there, so they were ready to go to war with North Korea. Yeah, and then when we woke up one morning we were there quite a while searching for him. When we woke up one morning, we were there quite a while searching for him and the only body we found, sadly, was the man who was in my squadron in HC-7. He was married to a foreign national and he was having trouble getting his kids back to the States, so he transferred into VQ-1. He was in aviation, so he transferred into VQ-1. He was in aviation. He was an AT, an electronics technician. Dick Sweeney was his name.
Speaker 1:He was the only body we found, so out of all 31 people.
Speaker 2:You never found anyone no we never found anyone and, like I said, the carriers were there. And then we woke up one morning. Oh, I'll back up a little bit. We had all sorts of planes flying around and I never realized how big a Russian bear bomber was. And we had one fly by us and the tail, the big red star on it, was as big as our helicopter. And the co-pilot just gave us a wave and I said over to the intercom, because we had an M60 machine gun on the left-hand door, the crew door, and I said over the intercom. I said to the crew, I said hey, how about if I just wave this M60 at them? Well, the pilot, tim Malachowski, said Knight, if you move, we'll kill you. They don't want to tangle with the Russian bear, no.
Speaker 2:But then after that everyone left and we were the only one there. We didn't have any support ships or anything. So we stayed there and it was us and a Russian destroyer. The Russian destroyer would go back into port every night. Vladivostok, it's that far south end. So you were Close. We were up at the north end of North Korea and stuff. We would follow them in and then follow them back out. And we refueled US military ships, refueled side to side with the oilers. They refueled end to end. When we refueled, they would pull behind us and act as a lifeguard in case someone fell overboard or something like this. When they refueled, we pulled behind them and acted as a lifeguard.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's nice. A little detente back in the 60s behind them and acted as a limerick Wow that's nice, a little detente back in the 60s.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we were there and stuff like this, but we were quite quite. The HC-7 was quite a busy, busy squadron. They made just under. They were there from 1967, as I said, in late summer and they came back to the States and they were decommissioned in 75 when Saigon fell back to the communists. I was long gone. I left in 1969. I was there two years Right. But they made I think it was 148 rescues out of North Vietnam in the area, waters and stuff. But it was good duty, very, very good duty. The camaraderie was unbelievable with the men.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to have, when you're doing that kind of work, you got to have those kind of friendships. Oh, we were tight.
Speaker 2:And there was no such thing. As you know, you did treat them with respect, but there was no such thing as officers and enlisted men, because we were all together, Right and stuff, and, like I said, we flew and had a, we had a good time and stuff like that, and off duty, you know, we went back to the Philippines or back to Japan. Of course, then you treated him with respect and everything, but it was always real good duty. I remember once back up in Japan anyone could fly, left seat in a helicopter you can have you know a list of men. So I was dragged out of my bunk, out of my rack, on a Sunday morning by an officer I knew very, very well and he wanted me to fly with him. So I had thought he needed flight time for the month and stuff it's the only way they don't Well.
Speaker 2:His I can't remember if it was his girlfriend or his wife was there. She was. He knew I was from. My family lived in New Hampshire. His wife or girlfriend, whatever she was, was in the Miss. I think she was Miss New Hampshire, oh. And so he took her on the helicopter. When we were airborne he had me leave and go in the back. We were in the H2. He had his girlfriend come up and sit in the back. We were in the H-2. He had his girlfriend come up and sit in the co-pilot seat, in the left seat, and so we flew just around the base and stuff like that, and then we got back and we changed and stuff.
Speaker 2:So it's always interesting. I have a lot of you know funny stories.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, a lot of good memories from there. So did you guys fly a lot of good memories from there? Oh yeah, so did you guys fly a lot of search and rescue missions then, while you were there. Yes, yes, Okay, so it was….
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said, we went to… we were out of Hatsugi or, I'm sorry, out of Kewpie Point, and then we would fly off the guided missile frigates, the DLGs, and we always told the pilots, whenever we briefed the pilots, the aircraft carrier pilots, that if you get hit, get feet wet, In other words, bail out over the ocean like a Tonkin Gulf. Your chances of survival skyrocket if you do that. Your chances of survival skyrocket if you do that. So we always had two crewmen. Like I said, we were in a small helicopter. First crewman stayed in the helicopter, maintained radio contact, the hoist and the M60 machine gun on the left-hand door. Plus we had a rack of one shoulder-mounted M60 and then some M16s on the right-hand side and everyone had you know 45 and stuff like this with them. But we always had a guy that was always dressed as a swimmer. He had, you know, the big swim fins ocean-going swim fins and a mask and a vest. The vest had a small flotation thing in it, had a D-ring in it that you could hook up yourself to when you got the pilot, and a big K-bar knife and of course, the little CO bottles and stuff. And it's interesting, later in life, later on we had a guy who's dead now.
Speaker 2:Phil Poison was his name. Ran the reunion association for my overseas helicopter squadron. Phil Poison lived in San Diego. Put out to everyone did anyone have this swimmer's vest? They wanted to put it on display.
Speaker 2:And my wife said isn't that what the kids used to play with when we lived in Riverview? So I found it in the garage here in Hillsdale and I went out there and I took the knife out and the CO bottles out and it had my name embroidered on it USN on the other side and I sent it off to Phil Poison on the other side. And I sent it off to Phil Poison. And the USS Midway is decommissioned. It's a floating museum in San Diego Harbor and he gave it to them for display. Well, my wife and I went out there and I went all over the ship and stuff like this and there's three of my helicopters on the flight deck and the H-2, the H-3, and the H-46 are on the flight deck and I went down and asked the people down in the end of the display in the hangar deck if my stuff was there and he says no.
Speaker 2:He says I bet you it's still in storage. So my brother and his family have a place in California, southern California. He lives in New Hampshire still, but we went out there to visit him and we went there and I took my brother there and on the flight deck, as I said, there's an H-2, h-3, and H-46. And then down in the hangar area there's a display for search and rescue and it's all enclosed in plexiglass so no one can touch anything. And there's my first skipper's coffee mug and there's the a copy of the Medal of Honor certificate from one of our pilots, Clyde Lassen, that won the Medal of Honor, and there's some other things there for and everything else. And over in the other side there's this enclosed area where is this swimmer's vest, but it's turned around so you can't see my name on it, whatever, for whatever reason.
Speaker 1:So but it's there so so your, your vest lives on 15 seconds of fame. There you go.
Speaker 2:So when I go out there, when I go to california, I'm gonna go see your vest yeah, it's lloyd parthomer's coffee cup and yeah, and uh and everything and and, like I said there's. And then Clyde Lassen he was just such a nice man died of cancer later. Oh, life down in Florida. Not not service-related, yeah, but but yeah it was, it was nice and, like I said, I love flying and it was. It was just really really great, great. We, as I told you before we even got to, fly Bob Hope, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think, before we leave Vietnam, you need to tell me what's this Bob Hope story all about.
Speaker 2:I shared a house out in Japan, in what they call the Japanese economy, with a fellow who was in charge of assigning all enlisted crewmen throughout the squadron and he and I were best friends and so when the time came up to fly Bob Hope, we flew him, of course, in the H-46. And, as I said before, I was the first crewman in the H-2. I wasn't the first crewman in the H-46, but anyone can fly a second crewman, and so I got to fly Bob Hope in 1968. And he was such a nice man and most Hollywood stars, you know their kids didn't go in the military, but Bob Hope and his wife Dorothy, their children were all adopted and his son Kelly I think that was his middle name, it wasn't his first name. Kelly Hope was a Navy corpsman and he was at a time stationed at the big Army hospital in Zama, japan, and so you know we were assigned to fly Bob Hope and we were there and Jerry Colonna and Martha Ray and Ann Margaret and a bunch of them I can't remember all the stars were there.
Speaker 1:Anne Margaret's, the only one that matters to me, yeah.
Speaker 2:And stuff and they were all dancing on the flight deck with them and stuff like this and it was fabulous. And then, as you know, at the shows all the wounded sat in the front row. Yeah Well, we sat to the right or to the left. There's four of us pilot, co-pilot, two enlisted fliers, and we were there at his shows and stuff like this. But later on in life, and we were living out here in Hillsdale, my two adult children bought me the DVDs Bob, the Vietnam years and second DVD. In comes this H-46 helicopter number 50, with my squadron's emblem on it, with some goofy guy hanging out the front door window. No, so there's my 15 seconds of fame. But he was, like I said, so nice to us the first stop we made. We got out of the helicopter, he had the stars line up and he took us down and introduced us to every single star and we just felt like we were something special and he made us feel so great. He was such a nice man.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a great experience, yeah, yeah, because sometimes you meet people like that and they're not so nice, but it sounds like this was, oh, bob Hope was just fabulous, yeah.
Speaker 2:And all the entertainers were there. They were really good people and stuff like this. And it's interesting, we had parachute riggers were the guys who did all of our sewing for us. Parachute riggers were the guys who did all of our sewing for us. And my name tag my leather name tag on my flight jacket and then the ones on Velcro that I had on my flight suits. They had my air crew wings on it and had. At that time I was just an airman but it said P Knight on it.
Speaker 2:And there was an incident that happened in the Philippines and I kind of saved this one parachute rigger's butt for something and he told me anything you want, you got it. I said you know something? I'd like my name tag to say Pat Knight, not P Knight. So I did that and I'm helping one of the stars down the steps of the 46. And she grabbed me by my shoulders and gave me a big smooch, big kiss and asked me Pat Knight, how have you been? I thought she remembered me from before and I showed this and told this story years later when I was in the police department in Riverview and I had some police over and stuff like this and I told them this story and they said hey, blankety blank, she didn't remember you, she read your name tag.
Speaker 1:Oh, all those years you were believing the wrong thing. So you burst my bubble. Yeah, so, so you were in for how many years then?
Speaker 2:Two.
Speaker 1:I was in.
Speaker 2:I was in the Navy for for just under four years.
Speaker 2:It was three years nine months. I got an early out in September of 70 because I was registered to go to the University of New Hampshire, okay and stuff. So I got early out. So I spent three years in multiple months in active duty, of course, two years in active duty and stuff. And if it hadn't been for the Navy I wouldn't be sitting here.
Speaker 2:My wife is from Wyandotte, michigan. She was going to Western Michigan University at the time and her and her girlfriend, both from Wyandotte and they went to Western at the Western, went out to California, to Imperial Beach in San Diego area to see her sister-in-law who was her best friend in Wyandotte High School. Her brother was in the Navy. He was on the USS Bonhomme Richard the aircraft carrier. He did catapults and I met my future wife on a blind date in Imperial Beach, california.
Speaker 2:So if I hadn't been for the Navy because I came back and I was with a kid from a man, kid from Toledo, and he flew in the H-3. He flew aboard the carriers with the H-3. But we went he said he wanted to stop in these apartments in Imperial Beach to see his buddy from Toledo. So we went in to see him and Scott Boyer was the man's name, and this is his wife, sharon. He was out on an aircraft carrier which was my future brother-in-law's aircraft carrier, the Bonhomer Shard, the Bonnie Dick. They were doing carrier qualls, getting ready to go back to Vietnam, and she said boy, have I got two girls for you guys to meet? How about tonight? Well, it was Sunday night. We had all been together up in La Jolla up at one of the guys' parents' place. We had a big party and stuff. We didn't even destroy the parents' place, you didn't wreck anything.
Speaker 1:No, we were good.
Speaker 2:And she said how about tonight? And I said how about Tuesday? We both flew Tuesday night, we got flight pay. They'll think we're rich. So we met them and he ended up Ron Stahl was his name and we ended up meeting the two ladies. Rosemary Adamus was the other lady, my wife was Kathy Lake at that time and we met them and everything else like this. And Ron Stahl, like I said, was from Toledo and he ended up marrying Rose. Sadly, he was killed in a motorcycle accident in Toledo. Oh, not his fault, yeah, and stuff. But she's made out well. She was a teacher as well, as same as my wife Mm-hmm, and she married her principal in her second marriage and she had two kids and they were all there, all'm sure grown up now and everything, but it all sort of turned out.
Speaker 1:So you were from Pennsylvania, you met a gal from Michigan out in California. Sounds like the date went pretty well, but then she went home and you went home, I went back.
Speaker 2:After I got out of the Navy I went to New Hampshire, yeah, and we got there and we did long distance uh telephoning and writing between Concord, New Hampshire, and Wyandotte, michigan, and um, we knew each other 13 months and we got married. We got married in Wyandotte and we settled uh uh in in uh down river in in in Wyandotte and and um, uh, I worked at various car dealerships and stuff as service manager and things like that.
Speaker 1:Then I uh well, before we get too far, though I want to. I want to point something out to people listening to. This is that when you're talking long distance at that time it was, it was long distance call, so you paid for the call or you wrote letters, right, and um, you know the-month longest relationship. Looking at it from today's perspective, it seems like wow, that kind of happened kind of quick. But you really get to know someone when you hand write a letter to them, right? I mean, is that what happened?
Speaker 2:Yes, and we still have a good number of those letters here, and stuff like this, and I did go back and forth and she came to New Hampshire my parents, we did go back and forth and I came to Michigan and everything else and her father was in the Navy in World War II and, as I mentioned before, my father was in the Army Air Corps in World War II and both my parents were teachers.
Speaker 2:My father-in-law worked for Detroit Edison and we got married in Wyandotte. Like I said, 13 months after we met and we actually my parents still in their home in Pennsylvania where I grew up and so we went back there where I grew up and so we went back there, which was a big mistake, and she was very, very nice to me, my wife, my brand-new bride and we stayed there for a very short time and then we came back to Michigan and then I worked at some car dealers as like the maintenance manager and things like this at car dealers and stuff and parts manager. And then in 1973, I was hired on the Riverview Police Department.
Speaker 1:Now, is this something you had like always wanted to do, or is this just something that kind of like oh, this looks like a good opportunity.
Speaker 2:I did something and I had applied to Michigan State Police and stuff, and I think it was probably for me working in the government, with being in the Navy and stuff like this, and you know my, you know teachers and government workers, right things like this and and I just you know, applied to, like I said, the Michigan State Police and Riverview police and I I was playing oh, I back up at one step. I was, like I said, service manager at South Point Dodge in Taylor, michigan, and I was golfing on the Riverview Golf Course, which is still there. The pro came out and he was one of the teachers in Riverview and he said that your guy didn't show up and this guy didn't show up. I'm going to pair you with him, is that okay? I said, sure, I'm a terrible golfer, but we'll do it.
Speaker 2:And the man was the. He was a part-time mayor of the city of Riverview, chet Belak was his name, and so we golfed and he asked me what I did and everything else like this and, like I said I had applied to Michigan State Police and everything else like this, he asked me did you ever think about being a policeman? I said, yes, I did. And he says, well, we're hiring, he says. But I voted against it because we have too many policemen. So I applied to Riverview Police and I was hired, and that was 1973.
Speaker 1:And you didn't list him as a reference, did you no? And you worked there for how long? 32 years, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:So you had quite a career, right, and I retired as chief of police. As I joke with people, I should have stayed in the union.
Speaker 1:I've heard that story from a lot of people. Politicians still be crazy.
Speaker 2:But I loved it. I did everything From patrol work all the way up to chief of police. I worked in traffic for many years the traffic bureaus they called it. I was just a patrolman but I did all the school programs and things like that. It was interesting and stuff. I worked in the detective bureau. I worked the road for a short while. They rotated shifts every seven days so it got tough on you and your body, tough on you and your family and stuff. I worked the 32 years. I probably worked the majority of them straight day shift with the detective bureau and things like that. And things came back around. I mean always, you know, good stuff for me. I, you know, was there and stuff like this and we had a. I worked all the.
Speaker 2:I was in charge of the auxiliary police, as I said before, so I went to all the basketball games, football games and things like that. And they had a Catholic high school in Riverview. They did not have their own football field, they utilized Riverview's public school football field. So I took my auxiliary police and I went to their games and worked their games. Well, I was of the opinion that, of the opinion that you know you're nice to people and stuff, especially kids. If you caught kids doing something, you didn't lock them up, you kicked them in the butt. It's a small town, so you contacted their parents and stuff.
Speaker 1:Everybody knows everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you caught kids with beer you make them pour it out. You know, rant and rave and scream at them. And I went through non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Hey, I'm cured here in Michigan at Henry Ford Jackson, Henry Ford Allegiance, and I was getting some very nasty you know, I said non-Hodgkin's lymphoma very nasty chemotherapy because my cancer was very fast growing and so I was about to get my first chemo infusion. I'm lying on the table and this infusion nurse is there and she's about to poke me with this needle, with R-CHOP and that's the acronym for all this stuff, and it was like nasty stuff. Um, I could not kiss my wife for a number of days.
Speaker 2:Whenever I this is gross, but I urinated, my urinated orange and I couldn't even let my dog lick me because the stuff radiated through my skin, right. But this nurse leans down and looks at me and she said I know you, I remember you, you made us pour our beer out. And she said I know you, I remember you, you made us pour our beer out. She was from Roseo, michigan, went to Gabriel Richard High School and I caught them in the parking lot with beer, I guess and made them pour it out and kicked their butts and sent them home to their parents.
Speaker 1:This is not the time you want to remember that story, right? While she's getting ready to poke her in the needle, though, yeah and it was funny.
Speaker 2:It was funny how things go around and stuff, but it was great. And, like I said, people guys from my squadron said your stuff is it related to dioxin? I said I don't know, I don't think so, I don't think it's the right type. I said, but I don't care. I I said I don't know, I don't think so, I don't think it's the right type. I said but I don't care, I'm cured so I didn't go to the VA. I do have a 10% disability for hearing Right.
Speaker 1:So from helicopter jet engine noise or machine gun noise, they said so you went through your cancer treatment while you were still a police officer then.
Speaker 2:No, we were out here, I was retired, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I do want to ask you a question about your time, because you know a lot of my family friends are police officers. In fact, I worked part-time for a while and you know cops have a million stories and we don't have time for a million stories. But I would like to know, like, when you think back on your time doing police work, what's like maybe one or two things that really like stick out in your mind that you're either proud of or that just something that you remember when you think back on that time?
Speaker 2:Well, I was very, very proud to do and, like I said, work with the kids and work with the people and stuff like this. And I had very, very close ties, not just because my wife was a teacher very close ties to the school district and everything else like this. But Riverview was just a fabulous, fabulous place to work. But in those days it was Michigan state law that police officers had to live in the city they served, so that helped me out tremendously, being from Pennsylvania and not being from from down river in in in Riverview. Um, so you got to know everyone and and it was uh, when I retired they had a retirement party for me. I was very thankful for that. I had well over 200 people come to my retirement party. I had, of course, federal law enforcement, state law enforcement, county, local, my own people come and stuff like this. But the amount of citizens, especially older people from the Downriver area, that paid 25 bucks a ticket to come to my retirement party, I stood at the podium and I cried and my wife just said to me maybe it's because you did a good job and stuff and and I have, I have great, great, uh, uh memories of of the riverview police department. It was just a fabulous place to work. I stay in contact with a lot of people there.
Speaker 2:The little side note one of the former graduates of Riverview is a guy by the name of Lloyd Carr Jr. He is a former head football coach at University of Michigan, before Harbaugh. He was in 1997, he took him to the national championship and he's such a nice, nice man and sadly, the last three times I've seen him and I've seen him a lot since then have been at funerals. His second wife passed away. Uh, I didn't see him at my, my kid's graduation because his stepson went to uh uh Grand Valley state with our daughter and um, uh, my guy, I got hired with uh Riverview. Uh, he just passed away. So Lloyd was at his funeral. He lives out here in the area and he doesn't drive, his family drives him, but he's just such a nice, nice man.
Speaker 2:But the people of Riverview, they accepted me and they were just so nice and they treated me like one of their own. And you know the school district where my wife worked and the city employees were all integrated. You know they were, we were in the same credit union and things like that and I have I just I forgot all about it. But just before I retired as a police officer, I was named police officer of the year and they had the awards ceremony, where I got the thing around my neck and stuff because I just found the DVD downstairs and but, like I said, the memories of working in the city of Riverview and with the people and the citizens, the citizens were just so great and sadly, like I said, police officers don't have to live where they serve anymore because when John Engler was governor he changed it, which it should be, and now they've gone outside.
Speaker 2:The last two chiefs of police that have been there have not come up through the ranks. The guy there now works in another downriver city and they had another one from Dearborn Police that was there and sadly, the people that are moving up the police they can't do that because there's nothing at the top anymore. Right, it's sad.
Speaker 1:Well, I think some of your best leaders come from inside the ranks. There, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, when I was deputy chief and when I was named chief of police, I looked at the lieutenants that were there and I knew them all very, very well. I got along with them and everything else like this. But I thought I don't think I want to work side by side with them on a regular basis like that. So I went down and chose a sergeant. He was a detective sergeant. I worked with him when I was in the detective bureau. I knew that he was rock solid and he would have my back and he would do the job. So I named him deputy chief. I try to hurt some people's feelings and probably upset some people, but then he became chief when I retired.
Speaker 1:Right, Well, you're the chief, you get to make those decisions Right.
Speaker 2:And, like I said, I really enjoyed police work. Riverview was very safe, the Down River communities were very, very safe and it was nice. And I remember that, other than at the range, I fired my gun one time. Other than at the range, I fired my gun one time. There was two fellows that had escaped from one of the prisons in Jackson and they had stolen a car and they were downriver and we saw them and we were chasing them and we went to. They drove into Trenton, a city south of us, and it was the 4th of July and it was a Sunday. I remember that distinctly and I drove in and they get out of their car and they're running ahead of me and they were running into a court and I'm now in the city of, like I said, in the city of Trenton, and I'm chasing them and I pulled out my weapon and hollered hold or I'll shoot.
Speaker 2:But I had the time and presence of mind. I looked over the shoulder of the guy as he's running, he's armed but he's not pointing his gun at me. There's a man sitting in his. He's in a court. He's sitting in his family room yeah, I think it was family room and he's got a bathrobe on reading the Sunday paper, and he's right over the shoulder of the man I had. So I fired into the ground and blew up some guy's zucchini patch. Oh no, and it was funny.
Speaker 1:You can't do that anymore either. No, no, warning shots right? No, no, but I did that so that was.
Speaker 2:But they kept going and the Trenton cops caught them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it was funny.
Speaker 1:So the whole time you're on the police force you had children, right? Yes, and how many children did you have? Two, two, we have a son and a daughter, okay, so they grew up in.
Speaker 2:Riverview. They went to school and graduated high school in Riverview yes, those poor kids.
Speaker 1:Their mom's a teacher and their dad's a cop. They can't get away with anything.
Speaker 2:No, but they never. You know, living in the city of Riverview, it was good for them. They never faced any adversity from their fellow students or anything else like this, and it was a good place to raise a family.
Speaker 2:It really was and I enjoy it and I used to go to meetings once in a while down that way from out here. I haven't been in a while. Last time I was there it was for the fellow that his funeral was at Gabriel Richard Church in Riverview, but before that I hadn't been there in a while. But I went to a police meeting and I was on 4th Street south of Pennsylvania Road, which Pennsylvania Road is the border of Southgate and Riverview, and the traffic was so heavy and so choked up I'm used to the Out here. Actually you have to wait to the some areas out here. You have to wait till the Amish move their wagons off the road so you can get by them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're watching this or listening to this, we are in rural Michigan. It was quite a drive getting out here, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's funny, my wife and I moved here by accident, blindly. We had fallen in love with South Carolina and we loved Riverview. We figured when we retired we'd stay in Riverview and maybe go down to South Carolina for a month or so in the winter and we're coming back from. I always took her to the Thomas Edison Inn in Port Huron for her birthday and we're coming back with her birthday on 94, interstate 94. And she said to me you know, I'd like to buy a place on a lake. I pulled over to the shoulder of the road and I said what are you talking about? We have two kids, our son's older than our daughter. We're very, very close to our family and our daughter, actually to this day, is one of my wife's best friends, if not her best friend. She was pregnant with our first grandchild. We are going nowhere.
Speaker 2:So so we made a, came up this way and made a way in here. We did not want to go up north, nothing against up north, but we did not want to go up north. Nothing against up north, but we didn't want to go up north. This wasn't your thing. No, we had been there with her parents and stuff like this, but we just went. So we came this way into Jackson County, into Hillsdale County, and we looked at on the internet 50-some places and looked at 30-some in person and we found this place here. This is a man-made lake. It's controlled by a dam, oh okay. And we found this here in Hillsdale, and Hillsdale County is, uh, by deer it's, it's, it's over 600 square miles but there's only like 40,000 people. And at that time we moved here, uh, uh, the, uh. I say I still stay in contact with uh, law enforcement and stuff. One of the conservation officers told me he says, yeah, there's only, there's 40,000 people, he said, but the last deer count was 56,000.
Speaker 2:I've hit three since I've been here yeah and um, but uh, we, we, we absolutely love it here in Hillsdale.
Speaker 2:It's uh, I'm like I said before. I'm involved in the community a couple of different ways and my wife's involved with the community and and everything. And then our daughter and son-in-law, because my wife retired two years after me from teaching. They lived in our house here for a year and built a house close by us, and so the two daughters graduate from high school near here. But we love living in Hillsdale County in the country.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about that a little bit too. So you retired in 2005, right? So your wife would have retired in 2007. Eight or eight, okay. So it's been almost 20 years of retirement for both of you. Other than kind of moving here and setting up, what have you been up to?
Speaker 2:Well, we came here and I was involved in Kiwanis for a while. One of our neighbors got us involved in Kiwanis and so I was involved in that and I liked that part and giving back. Well, kiwanis has a state trooper camp that they have in the summertime and so I was put in charge with that, being a retired police officer, the kids go through intermediate school district and they have a state police academy for the kids. It's one week in the summer and so I was in charge of sending the high school kids from Riverview that qualified and so I did that, and then I had some health issues so I did continue in Kiwanis.
Speaker 2:I was there quite a few years but I've been involved with the emergency management and public safety here in Hillsdale County. It's a 911 board, they call it, and I've been involved in that for 18 years and so we have a monthly meeting. I had one yesterday and you meet with all the public safety. There's police, fire and ambulance people there, and then there's some civilians like myself who have had connections with police or fire and things people there, and then there's some civilians like myself who have had connections with police or fire and things like that and my wife. She wasn't doing it so much now but she was involved with the Hillsdale County Foundation and some other people here with Student of the Year scholarships for the county.
Speaker 1:She's got a state of education yes, with student of the year scholarships for the county she's got a state of education, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we go to the Perennial Park, the Hillsdale County Senior Center, and we go there to exercise and they have a very, very nice place. They have a state-of-the-art exercise area downstairs and everything. And they had some issues with some county commissioners. They wanted to cut funding back for the senior center even though they were on a 14-year millage, and they couldn't. They're nice people, the county commissioners, but they didn't understand. They thought that the Hillsdale County Perennial Park was just meals on wheels. It didn't provide other things food, and you know they have a gymnasium and they're going to build a walking track and things like this. And so I went and they were meeting with the former director of the Hillsdale County Senior Center and they asked a couple people to come and speak there because the county commissioners were there. And, like I said, the county commissioners really didn't have a clue of what they did. They thought it was just wheels on wheels. And so I got up and spoke and talked to them and there was another retired doctor that was there. He's a good friend Actually. His daughter was the director of the perennial park at that time and they got up and spoke and stuff like this.
Speaker 2:And so like a week or so later I had one of the they had changed the hierarchy and one of the new assistant director came to me and asked me, said we'd like you to get on the board for because we have an opening for perennial park. I said, I said oh, that's nice. I said I appreciate that it keeps me busy and stuff. I thought they just wanted insight from someone that exercised downstairs and worked out and could tell the people about that. And they said, yes, that's it. But we also, because you stood up to the county commissioners and I said whoops, I got a big mouth. And so I've been on the Hillsdale County Perennial Park Senior Board for a year and a half and I love it and stuff and they do a lot of things for the seniors and things like this and it's really really great and stuff like this and it's uh, it's really really great and stuff.
Speaker 1:So so really, I mean, if you think about your, your life has been service to your, to your country, to your community, to whatever community you're in.
Speaker 2:You've continued that, that service right, uh, throughout and and in the, in the, in the, in the county and the in the uh and just the community that I give to them, they give back as well, yeah, and I, and I feel blessed that they that, they that they do and and everything else like this. In there there's a wide variety of people that are on the senior center board. There's bankers there's. They have one county commissioner, just a new one now. They have different other people through the community, different areas and stuff like this, and it's really nice and it's good for the people and they have a vision to do a lot of different things to build some, some housing units out at perennial park and, like I said, put a walking track in.
Speaker 2:They have uh, uh fabulous exercise area. They have everyone some. They have fundraisers for new exercise equipment. They they have uh called subs for fun and so you buy subs. So my wife and I both, you know, we of course participate and buy subs and people go make subs up and you go pick them up and you eat them and they, but all the profits goes to purchasing new equipment and things like that. So it's it's, it's great, yeah, that's really nice actually it's a nice facility for the citizens.
Speaker 1:Right. So do you think you'll ever actually retire? No, he's going to keep doing stuff. I like it.
Speaker 2:Like I said, I tried to go to the senior center. I was going to go this morning but I've just been too busy. I just graduated from the physical therapy, as I said before, with my hip replacement, so I just got back into it and I try to go three days a week. And I said my wife goes and she also does cardio drumming as well as exercising and stuff, and she does that and they have fabulous programs there and stuff like this, and they have different things and every one of the people that work downstairs are certified trainers. So they know all the equipment and if you know, you know, have any questions or you know, you know, have issues or anything else like this, they're dead, they're there to help you and and stuff. So it's, it's, it's, it's a neat facility and stuff and it's just so fabulous.
Speaker 1:You know, out in the country it's, it's a jewel, you know, it's a gem yeah, but I think it'd be very easy to uh be out in the country and not do anything, because there's just nothing to do. So it sounds like you guys have created a great space for that.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, they're good and, as I said, we retired to the lake here and stuff.
Speaker 2:Actually, this house was only a couple years old. Actually, this house was only a couple years old and the people we bought from sadly, the lady just died, her husband died a while ago. They were elderly. The lot next door went for sale but we've been here 20 years and he felt closed in that somebody was going to buy the lot and build and these people built it probably about seven years ago, but still there's space between us and everything. And they're fabulous neighbors and people next door on the other side. They are still working, they live in the Down River area, they're going to retire soon, but they're fabulous people too. There's great, great people residents on the lake, so it's nice. They do a lot of things like fishing, derbies and junk like this here and stuff.
Speaker 1:Always something to do. Yeah Well, we've talked about a lot of things. We've covered everything from being born and growing up in Pennsylvania to the blind date that changed everything, and now you're retired. But you're not retired. You've lived quite a great life. You have children and grandchildren, and maybe you're inching up into that great-grandchildren area at some point Not yet, no.
Speaker 2:The oldest girl is 22, or 21. She's up at Northern Michigan University and she's there. And we have two that are graduating high school this year, one here and one in Grand Rapids. The one in here is going to go to Grand Valley State, where her parents went and her uncle went, and the other one is going to college in the Grand Rapids area, and then we have one that's just entering high school. Wow, that's fantastic, yeah. So we've got lots of kids and stuff, I guess, and both our son and our daughter are in the medical field and stuff. So they're there and we're proud.
Speaker 1:Serving as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're proud of them and everything else like this, and my wife keeps me in line. Yeah, serving as well. Yeah, we're proud of them and everything else like this, and my wife keeps me in line. Yeah, keeps me straight. The whip marks I have on my back are tremendous.
Speaker 1:So how long have you been married? Then I didn't do the math 53 years.
Speaker 2:53 years, no 54 years. My apologies, don't want to get that wrong 1971.
Speaker 2:We only have 54 years my apologies, don't want to get that wrong 1971. We got 54 years. We were both very young, we got married and 54 years and we celebrated our 50th. It was a big celebration with the kids and everything else and we do a lot of things.
Speaker 2:I have two brothers One had passed away in 2001, the one next to me and I have a brother in New Hampshire. I have a brother in Wisconsin and we're very, very close. My brothers have been here. Like I said before, my brother, his wife, inherited the place out in California and so we meet out there a lot of times and go there. And my brother took us to San Diego because we had told him about the USS Midway, yeah, and he wanted to see it.
Speaker 2:He's my youngest brother, younger brother now, and I thought it was like an hour away. It wasn't three hours away and my brother drove and I felt so terrible. But we went there and he was very happy to see the aircraft carrier, which I wasn't stationed on an aircraft carrier, but very happy to see the ship and my helicopters and everything else like this. But we're very close to my brothers and my nieces and nephews and our children and grandchildren, nephews and our children and grandchildren. My wife is on the phone with our daughter on a constant basis. We text back and forth on a constant basis and everything else like this, and our son and daughter have been here a lot.
Speaker 1:That's great, that's great. So, you know, as we kind of wrap up our conversation this afternoon, uh, there's always one question that I ask everyone, and that is, you know, looking back on your life, if someone's listening to this years from now, what? No, the dog wants to talk to um years from now. So what, what message would you have for people?
Speaker 2:Years from now. So what message would you have for people? Life is great. Like I said, I've been through some medical issues and things like that, but I'm blessed. Family is great, it's absolutely fabulous and things like this, but life is what you make of it and you can't get down. There's bumps in the road but you always have to pick yourself up by your bootstraps and keep on moving for health reasons or any other kind of reason and stuff like this. And, like I said, I've been blessed because I have a family that's so supportive of me and supportive of all of us together that you know, we know, you know.
Speaker 2:But my extended family as well, my mother's side of the family especially I get, you know, get electronic birthday cards from. I have two uncles and one aunt on my mother's side are still alive and I talk to them electronically or I call them and stuff. And then I have a cousin's, my cousin, my first cousin, but he's our son's age, stuff, and he's been here and stuff like this. He lives in the Poconos in Pennsylvania. He worked in a car design industry and so he comes out and goes to like a lot of times in the Detroit car show and stuff, and so he's come here a number of times and I've had my one aunt and uncle from they live now in the Adirondacks in upstate New York. They've come here and stuff like this. So we're very close to all of our family, extended and close family and talk to them and deal with them on a regular basis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sounds like family is very important.
Speaker 2:It is, it is, it is. It's sad when you I know of some people that have nothing against getting divorced. I'm very proud that she's stuck by me all these years and being a cop and everything else like this. But some people that I know have had divorces and they have. They don't know their children, they don't know their grandchildren and stuff like this. And you know there's nothing you can do to change anything like that. All you can do is just look back and reflect on your own. Yeah, and stuff like this, like the picture behind you those are, it's right behind your head.
Speaker 1:Oh, let me turn around here.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Down to the left is our son and our daughter. Up to the left upper are the four granddaughters. Up in the upper right is the four granddaughters again and then the youngest one up there giving her thumbs up.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, I see Sasha's got a prominent picture there too. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And we get actually my son and his ex-wife gave us that, so we look at that and reflect on that and we have tons of pictures like going downstairs, just tons and tons of pictures of family members and things like this and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I hear Sasha's giving her input as well for this. So, yeah, well, I want to say thank you so much for taking time out of your day to sit here and talk with me and share your story. I'm sure people are going to hear this and learn something from it.
Speaker 2:I don't know about learning something from it, but it is interesting. I've had a fabulous, fabulous life and I'm so blessed and many people are. Most people are things like this. Obviously, you are, I've listened to what your background is and everything else like this, but life is neat. Life is neat yeah.
