Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
In a world where storytelling has been our link to the past since the days of cave drawings, there exists a timeless tradition. It's the art of passing down knowledge, and for Military Veterans, it's a crucial piece of their legacy. Join us on the Veterans Archives Podcast, where we dive deep into the heartwarming and awe-inspiring stories of those who served, no matter when or where.
Here, Veterans get the chance to be the authors of their own narratives. Through guided interviews in a relaxed and safe environment, they paint their experiences with their own words and unique voices. The result? A memory card in a presentation box, a precious gift they can share however they please.
But that's not all. These stories find a secure home in our archive, a treasure chest of experiences for future generations to explore. The best part? It's all a gift to the Veteran – our way of saying thank you for their service.
Tune in to the Veterans Archives Podcast, where history, heroism, and heartwarming tales come to life.
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Veterans Archives: Preserving the Stories of our Nations Heroes
From Detroit to the Army: Ray Brennan's Journey
Ray Brennan's journey through mid-century America captures an era when neighborhood connections formed the bedrock of community life. Growing up in Detroit during the 1940s and 50s, Ray paints a vivid picture of Catholic parish life, neighborhood games, and the close-knit families that shaped his worldview. His stories of attending Detroit Catholic Central High School reveal how education and athletics molded young men of his generation, creating bonds that would last a lifetime.
The heart of Ray's narrative revolves around family traditions, particularly the cottage at Rondo Park in Canada. This summer retreat became the center of Brennan family gatherings, where Ray personally built a basketball court that drew friends and neighbors together for impromptu games. His description of these summer days evokes a simpler time when personal connections weren't mediated by technology but forged through shared experiences and physical proximity.
Military service marks another chapter in Ray's life, from his comedic account of consistently failing blood pressure tests to his eventual stations at Fort Benjamin Harrison and Fort Bragg. It was during this period that Ray met his wife Loretta, beginning a relationship that would span over six decades. His amusing tale of following her home after a wedding reception "to make sure she got there safely" reveals the courting rituals of a bygone era.
Perhaps most remarkable is Ray's pivotal role in establishing Thomas Cooley Law School alongside his brother Tom. His firsthand account of transforming historic buildings—including the innovative conversion of a 14-story structure into a 10-story facility with higher ceilings—demonstrates how practical problem-solving and relationship-building contributed to creating an enduring educational institution. This portion of his story illustrates how ordinary individuals can contribute to extraordinary legacies through dedication and ingenuity.
The emotional highlight comes when Ray recounts recovering his grandfather's fire chief watch in Kingston, Ontario—a tangible connection to his family's past that had been lost for generations. This poignant moment underscores the enduring importance of heritage and memory in shaping personal identity.
What will you discover about your own family's journey through the generations? Listen now to gain perspective on how everyday choices and relationships create legacies that transcend time.
Today is Tuesday, september 23rd 2025. We're talking with Ray Brennan, who served in the United States Army. So good afternoon, ray Good afternoon Bill. All right, so let's start out simple. When and where were you born?
Speaker 2:I was born in Detroit, michigan, at 10311 Morley Avenue. That was our home house and I was born in my parents' bedroom.
Speaker 1:Oh, so no, hospital for you, no hospital.
Speaker 2:No Matter of fact, my older sister was born in the first house in the same area, but my folks had, in 29, had, lost their home. Actually, they had always paid for the payment every month and then found out that the owner they were doing on a land contract and so they found out that he wasn't paying the oh goodness. So they lost everything that they put into it and they found this other home about eight, nine blocks away. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And so they bought that, and so they bought that, and we lived in there until, oh, 1959, I think. Oh so you grew up then on that street.
Speaker 2:I grew up there went to school, epiphany Parish, and all five of us went to Epiphany and of course that was our marriage, our school, and Epiphany went to the eighth grade. So everybody had to find a high school and my oldest brother, terry, went to Detroit Catholic Central, went to Detroit Catholic Central and I think he started in 40, was it 40, 45, 44 maybe? Okay. Anyways, because he was in the service and my brother Tom, he went in 47, and then I came along in 55.
Speaker 1:So they laid the groundwork for you then.
Speaker 2:Tom was eight years older than I am and Terry was 10. Okay, and I have a sister in between us, sally Joan, and she just died. She was 90 years old. Oh, and she was born on the 31st of May 31, 32, something like that. Okay, so, anyways, and then my head came along and my younger sister was born in 42. And there was a little story about that, because my cousin, jack Brennan, was in the, he was serving in the Naval Academy and he got married during his senior year and my folks were invited and according to my mother she said they were so excited about that marriage and stuff that she got pregnant.
Speaker 2:So my baby sister was born six years after I was.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like the kids were all pretty spread out then.
Speaker 2:My older two were Terry and Tom, were two years, maybe two and a half years apart. Okay. Then my sister was another, I don't know three, four years behind that.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then I was 10 years behind my oldest brother and eight years behind my and four years behind my sister. Uh-huh. So, and then I'm six years older than my oldest son, so it was all spread out Right Now.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming you guys didn't really like play together, then I mean you kind of were.
Speaker 2:Well, it was interesting because Brother Tom was. He loved games and he would invent games for the neighborhood. Oh, okay, and one of them was, I don't know, in those days we had rubber guns and he made a rubber gun. That was a machine rubber gun, in other words, it shot about five or six. And of course, in those days we bought rubber tires and we cut them down and that was their elastic for those things.
Speaker 1:Oh, you could really hurt somebody with that, so it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was. The longer the rifle, the more st it hit. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, he invented a game and he said he captured the machine gun and he'd hide the machine gun and then all the neighbors would be looking for the machine gun and that was a lot of fun. And, as a matter of fact, the church there was a I don't think it's there anymore, it's a Methodist church that was around, you know about a block away, and the minister I remember his name, oliver and Justine. Oliver was my age, so you know and they had a little lot next door to their house and we'd go down there and play touch football and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Anyways the church had this. It was a building, it was a wooden building and they had a basketball court in there and they had all their events there. Okay, and there was a walkway between that and the church, but it was a covered walkway. So, anyways, my brother thought a great place to head and that is on the top of that roof. Oh no, and that was quite a deal. But in my neighborhood we had a lot of boys my age and right across the street was the Boland family and Mike Boland was my age and he went to Epiphany, and then we had Dave Davies, a few, a few homes down the street, and then we had Bill Steen and you know, all in one block and then we had on the preceding block we had Joe Giles and then on the street behind us the violin and Charlie Robinette had he had he was he was part of that group and Carl Wilson was on that street.
Speaker 2:And then the Hart family was on that street, right in the corner, and the Harts had eight kids these are all Catholic families and the Harts had eight kids.
Speaker 1:These are all Catholic families.
Speaker 2:They're all well, the Harts were Catholic, but Davies and Steen and Robinette and Wilson were Protestant, okay, though most of them went to the church right there. So we're all pretty much church-going people, you know. Oh yeah, and on that street there was the Foley family, and Dick Foley was a year ahead of me, but they were all Biffany people was a year ahead of me, but they were all Biphany people and he had a brother, Brother Mike, and I'm forgetting, but my brother Tom was friends with his brothers.
Speaker 2:So they all sort of had kids that matched up, so the neighborhood was kind of a you know, it was good old days, really, because everybody knew each other, right you?
Speaker 1:didn't have to go anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we didn't have to go and walking distance all over the place. Yeah, yeah, and the drugstore was the guy was, he was a Catholic too and he was his name was Popsadlow. We always called it Pods, and that was kind of a neighborhood gathering and all the kids, you know my parents, say, where are you going? I'm going down to Pods. You know, they knew where I was going and you know pretty much everybody's going to be there and so that was a good time and a good period of time for me.
Speaker 1:It sounds like a great place to grow up. I'm curious could you tell me a little bit about your parents, about your mom and your dad?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my dad. He was born in Detroit and his parents were born in Kingston, Ontario, and so they came over, probably in 1890-something, but the whole family was born in Detroit. My uncle they call him PJ he was Patrick James and of course my grandfather's name was James Vincent, so that's where the James come from and that's my middle name, James.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Irish family right Huh Irish.
Speaker 2:Irish family. Oh yes, and matter of fact, my grandmother's name was Devlin, and that's pretty Irish too. Yes, yes, it is. And both of those, their parents, came right from Ireland and settled in Kingston, ontario. Okay, and matter of fact, laurie and I went to Kingston and found a lot of the stuff, and the church is still there, beautiful church. Oh, and so, anyway, we found a little bit of our history, lot of the stuff, and the church is still there, beautiful church. And so, anyway, we found a little bit of our history, and so that was fun.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, that was there. So what did your mom do? What was it? You know how was she?
Speaker 2:My mother. My mother worked for Ford Motor Company, okay, and she was in the office where the vice president was there and Ford was there, so she knew Ford pretty well some people would say the secretaries run the companies well it was. And she took what do you call it? Shorthand, shorthand.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, she could do that real good. And, my matter of fact, ford was so impressed when my folks got engaged. Engaged, he gave my mother a ride in one of the boats what do they call them? The big?
Speaker 1:Oh, the yacht.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, not the yacht, but the freighter.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh the big boats, yeah, the Ford freighter, yeah, so she got to.
Speaker 2:I don't know where they went, but she got to and I remember my dad had sent her flowers and stuff. It was really neat and so, anyways, when she got back she got her sister a job. Actually, she got her future sister-in-law a job and her name was Betty McGurn and Betty McGurn was part of that group and my Aunt, gertrude, was also a member of the Ford company, so there was a lot of Ford Ford family Ford background yeah, Now is that where?
Speaker 2:your dad worked, then my dad worked, I'm trying to think he worked for I think that the first job I can recall was he worked for Studebaker, and he also worked for the Secretary of State from Michigan, oh, and so he got a little bit in politics there. But and they're you know, my grandmother and my grandfather and most of their kids were Democrats, but my dad was a Republican.
Speaker 1:But that made for some interesting holiday meals.
Speaker 2:Well, they never really argued or anything but it was just. And the newspaper. There was two newspapers. Actually there were three newspapers in Detroit Detroit News, free Press and Detroit Times. And the Detroit Times was a conservative paper so my dad would buy that paper and the Free Press. It was kind of in the middle a little bit and the news was pretty much democratic. Oh yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that was interesting. My grandmother and grandfather had a home on Helen Avenue. I believe it was had a home on Helen Avenue. I believe it was only about two miles from the island. Belle Isle Belle. Isle, belle Isle, okay, and so, as children in the area, I said Belle Isle was the place to go. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I got pictures of my uncle skating on the pond in Belle Isle and stuff like that. And when Lori and I got married we went over to their house married. You know, we went over to their house and my Uncle Jim and my Aunt Anne and my grandmother we called her Miney and after the meeting Laurie asked me. He says well, when did Jim and Anne get married? I says they didn't marry their brother and sister.
Speaker 2:So they always took care of her and in those days the family would go to. They always went over to Canada I'm trying to think of the original site, but anyways, they ended up at Rondo Park, which is about there's a couple of small cities near Ridgetown and Blenheim and not too far from the other. Anyways, yeah, and in those days to get to the cottage it was quite a trip.
Speaker 1:Not as easy as it is today.
Speaker 2:Well, the only way to get there was Highway 3. I don't know if you ever heard of that. No, highway 3 went along the lake and back and around, so it was probably a three-hour trip from Detroit.
Speaker 1:No tunnel or bridge at this point.
Speaker 2:Well, we had the tunnel and the bridge were both there. I think the bridge went in. I'm trying to think 28, I think. Oh, so it's been there for a while. And the tunnel was even older than that. We always liked to take the bridge. Right.
Speaker 2:But the east side of the family all took the tunnel because that was the closer to go back. Right, and so, anyways, the family finally found this place in Rondo Park, finally found this place in Rondo Park, and my uncle, pj, always rented a cottage. Every year the same cottage, and I don't know how many years he had it. And so we would. You know, when we went there, we would visit him, and my parents would always try to rent a cottage there for two weeks and that was a good time and I got a picture of myself.
Speaker 2:My parents got a picture of myself the first time I stood up. Oh, but I happened to be in the bathtub.
Speaker 1:Oh, no yeah.
Speaker 2:So I start naked and I'm standing up All your glory.
Speaker 1:They took the picture, like parents will do.
Speaker 2:So they always thought it was cute and I lived with it. Matter of fact, I still got the picture and my brothers I think both of them had. There was pictures of brothers and sisters. It was all kinds of pictures of Rondo Park.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, this was like your annual trip, yeah and the Rondo Park and it went through the whole family. Matter of fact, my mother was a Sullivan and her brother went, sister-in-law and matter of fact, back to Ford. The sister-in-law worked at Ford. My mother introduced her to her brother. Oh, and they got married. That's how it works. It worked well. That's how it works, it worked well. Of course, the building bearing ground was Mount Olivet. The west side was Holy Sepulcher. It was huge.
Speaker 1:So let's go back a little bit. We were talking about school and how you ended up at Detroit Catholic Central. You kind of have a legacy there. Did a lot of the kids from your neighborhood go to Detroit Catholic Central then?
Speaker 2:We had, as a matter of fact, one of my best friends, bill Riley, and Bill Riley had a nickname called Buster and Buster was called Bus and his mother called him Bus, so everybody called him Bus. You know Bus Riley and he became my best man. So we knew each other for years and years and always been a good friend, and the neighborhood got together. A lot of the guys got together as we got older and Epiphany had an outdoor basketball court and all the neighbors would show up generally on a Sunday afternoon and play basketball. Oh yeah, basketball you know oh yeah and uh, there was.
Speaker 2:There was another thing where we uh, uh, we shot, uh um foul shots for money and and and you would shoot so many foul shots and the other guy had tried to beat it.
Speaker 1:If he didn didn't, you got your dime or whatever it was.
Speaker 2:So they always played that and then they played the game and it was a good time.
Speaker 1:Sounds like a great time. So how was high school for you?
Speaker 2:High school. As I say, I went to school with Bus Riley and Pat McSorley and Ron Broadley.
Speaker 2:I think that was the only three or four of us that went from Epiphany and Ron Bradley had an older brother that went there and a lot of times his older brother was a senior when we were freshmen so we always got a ride with him. So that was kind of neat, Right, and to get to Catholic Central on the bus I had to take the Wyoming bus and transferred to an auto drive bus and then the auto drive bus went past the school and the school was 6565 West Auto Drive. I know exactly where it's at.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, and right down the street was the girls Mercy High School, okay, so a lot of the guys and girls knew each other, so it was a pretty pretty neat time.
Speaker 1:So Detroit Catholic Central was a boys school then All boys, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:And still is.
Speaker 1:Oh, I did not know that.
Speaker 2:And it's located in Novi right now, beautiful campus, and we've been there several times. And, the matter of fact, the football stadium was named after an old Epiphany Parish guy named Father Elmer, huh Elmer. Father Elmer. Oh okay, father Elmer, and Father Elmer and my brother Tom and his brother were all Cub Scouts together. Oh okay, so that was kind of a neat connection.
Speaker 1:That is interesting. Now did you play sports?
Speaker 2:I played basketball, okay, and though I never played in grade school, so in high school I said, well, I'll go off the team. I had no knowledge of what the hell basketball was about. So I remember the first time I go out and make a layup. You know, and I bang, you know, throw the ball and the coach says what the hell was that? Anyways but it caught on. I really started loving the game. Yeah. And I played, and played, and played and finally made the junior varsity team. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And I made the senior team. I was mostly a benchwarmer, but I got a letter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you suited up.
Speaker 2:So that was neat.
Speaker 1:Now, so was the Detroit Catholic Central. Were they the Shamrocks, Shamrocks?
Speaker 2:That's why I got the Shamrock flag out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say. Every time I go by your house, ray, I see that that's the Shamrock flag, yeah.
Speaker 2:And of course I do a lot of Shamrocks in my email.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah. So what year did you graduate?
Speaker 2:I graduated in 1955. Okay, and we were the first class through that building and we were the first class through that building. So we started in 51, in September of 51, and graduated in June 55. Okay, and so we were the first class to go all the way through that school.
Speaker 1:So you christened the whole thing for four years. Yeah, yeah, that's really neat. So what did you do after graduation?
Speaker 2:neat. So what did you do after graduation? After graduation, well, the year I graduated 1955, that was a year my mom and dad bought a lot. Well, they didn't buy it. They leased the land at Rondo Park. And they leased the land I think it was a 40-year lease, yeah and so they built this cottage. My dad pretty much designed it.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Because it was a three-bedroom cottage and you know, and it had. One of the things it had was a porch on the side, screened-in porch. My dad loved that porch. He went out on Sunday afternoon and he'd fall asleep. So it was neat, yeah, and so, anyways, my mother just loved that cottage and until she died she was going there all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably great memories and just a really nice place to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the original cottage where my uncle, PJ, was. The shoreline was just beautiful. It's sand all the way in. You could walk up to your knees and it was beautiful. Well, where PJ finally built a cottage where my parents were, there was a lot of rock stony not rock. And so the beach wasn't quite as nice, but you could walk in up to your knees and dive in.
Speaker 2:It was a lot deeper and dive in you know it was a lot deeper, yeah, so, and that way it was Nate, you didn't have to wade out to swim.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that cottage, as you say. I was playing basketball a lot in those days and I built a court right behind the and we put in I think it was a 24 by 24 slab of cement, uh-huh, which we mixed our own cement and two of my buddies, and, matter of fact, when we first went there we had a bunch of guys and we'd move a lot of sand, all with shovels, you know, and we smoothed it out and then we made this court and I had a friend named Jerry Serpolowski and his dad was a policeman and the dad found some posts. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he gave them to us and I took the post and I had them all welded together so that the basket would be about six feet away from the original post and our friend Morley Avenue, right behind us was a gas station and the guy that ran the mechanic he was a World War II veteran and, matter of fact, he drove a lot of motorcycles during the parades and stuff. So anyways, he welded this thing all together and I rented a trailer and we went up and put this thing in and I dug a hole. I was four by four.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And at least four feet deep, four, yeah, and at least four feet deep. And we put the thing in just filled with cement, uh-huh, and until this day it's there, and it's not moved it hasn't done.
Speaker 1:You can still go shoot some hoops there, huh yeah.
Speaker 2:Matter of fact, we would have Sunday afternoon games. Up there, and right next to our cottage was the guy at cottage and ed guyette was a guy. He's a party guy, you know he just every saturday he'd he'd have all his buddies over and they'd He'd have all his buddies over and they'd sing songs all night long. Anyway, Sunday afternoon there was a bunch of guys who knew how to play and they'd all get around and we'd have games of basketball.
Speaker 2:Wow that sounds like a lot of fun, so it was a lot of fun, so it was a lot of fun, yeah, and then I had my friends would all come over and I'd have, I'd stay at my place, and then so it was neat, yeah, and we had two guys that played college ball, and so we're pretty good.
Speaker 1:So you put this all together after high school? Then yes, that's when your parents built the cottage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah, Because it was the year I graduated. I spent most of that summer painting the cottage. Yeah.
Speaker 1:They put you right to work Outside painting and doing some yard work and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:that summer painting the cottage, yeah, they put you right to work Outside painting and you know, and doing some yard work and stuff like that. So did you go to college that fall, then that's interesting because I had registered for the University of Detroit and 1958, my dad died and I had, and at that time everything just changed. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was. As a matter of fact, my mother and I and my younger sister were the only ones left at the home, and so I had to help with the bills, so from 55 to 1958, though 55,. No, I had gotten a job right the first summer or whatever. Okay, yeah, matter of fact, the company was Unique Engineering, uh-huh, and my and I had some pretty good graphic, yeah, talents. You know, in those days, you, you put everything on paper. There's no computers.
Speaker 1:Right, no computer-aided drafting. Back then it was all on like onion skin paper is there's no computers.
Speaker 2:Right, no computer-aided drafting.
Speaker 1:back then it was all on like onion skin paper is what they called it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was, and so I was there for a while, got laid off and then and this is between the, you know, between 55 and 58.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then you had applied to the school, but then your father passed away.
Speaker 2:Well, I applied before, okay so, but my sister was after me, yeah, so okay. But anyways so, but anyways so. Eventually I got a friend. You know, my dad was still alive when I got a job at Detroit, Edison Okay. And I think he had a connection or whatever, and though I don't know if it helped much, but I got in and, as a matter of fact, I started out in graphic arts department and in the graphic arts department I was a types department, and in the graphic arts department I was a typesetter. And a handset type.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you had to, everything had to be tight and yeah. Yeah, I was talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was. You know you had to lock the things in and you take prints on a roll over the. Yeah, the platen, yeah, yeah, and so it was all done by hand and I remember some of those guys that I knew in those days and the friendship just disappeared after a while.
Speaker 1:How long were you at Detroit, edison?
Speaker 2:I was at Detroit Edison. I got drafted. But they did mapping and if somebody bought a lot somewhere in the suburbs, you know they wanted to know what the, the uh, uh, the address of the street's going to be.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So we gave them. You know we, we knew the numbers and stuff. And I says well, how do you like this number? And I, you like this number and that's the number they had so that was that was kind of neat and from there I always like to build stuff and I pretty much self taught. And, matter of fact, the first thing I bought on I think it might have been on on what do you call it when you buy something on?
Speaker 1:time. Oh yeah, with credit.
Speaker 2:Credit, yeah, and I bought this beautiful saw and a big heavy thing. I still got it and it's. I think I paid $300 for it and I just love that thing. And I built my sister a. What A bedroom outfit. Oh, a bedroom outfit, a dresser. A dresser and stuff A big thing. I had nothing about it, but I read books and that stuff.
Speaker 1:You got it all figured out, I figured it out. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I don't know what happened to that. I think they sold it.
Speaker 1:So what year did you end up getting drafted then?
Speaker 2:I got drafted in. Let's see, I was in, was it? 1959 or 60 and that's part of the part of the story because I got drafted and and I left, edison and we and the family was going to go to Rondo Park and say goodbye Right, have a big going away party right. And I had purchased a 1958 Chevy convertible Impala and I just loved that car. Well, on the way to that thing, we got in an accident.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:And as a matter of fact I had in those days Edison was selling seatbelts. Uh-huh. And I bought one and I had this seatbelts. Uh-huh, and I bought one and I had this seatbelt on, but it doesn't have the shirt Right. So when the guy hit me, he hit me, it was a rainy night and his car was going sideways. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And I couldn't hit him. So, anyway, I hit him and I took a bite out of the steering wheel, oh, and I lost a couple of teeth. So anyways, that was another part of the old. Another adventure story, yeah. So you know I think. Didn't that keep you out for?
Speaker 1:a little bit.
Speaker 2:Well see, I had to go to the dentist and all that yeah you had to wait, Didn't that keep you out for a little bit?
Speaker 1:Well see, I had to go to the dentist and all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had to wait until you were all better, right. So I was better and so I didn't go back to work. But my brother, Terry, says well, he says I've got a second car you can have or can use. He says, but on condition that he had bought this old yacht and it needed a lot of work.
Speaker 2:So he hired me to work on it and I sanded it mostly a wooden boat and I worked on it it was mostly a wooden boat, yeah, and I worked on that all summer long, and so he paid me to do it, and so I never went back to Edison Right and finally I had to go into the service and so I think, after several going away parties, every time there was a going away and I went down and I never could pass the test oh no. I was blood high pressure, but yeah, I was blood high pressure, yeah, but yeah, I was pretty well feeling.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, I went to my doctor, who happens to be the physician for Catholic Central Football and good friends of my brother, tom, and a matter of fact, I think was it one of our church was born with, oh, dr Ronay Ronay. Well, now actually he quit or retired, remember Dr Monning, and then he went and worked at a steel mill someplace.
Speaker 2:Anyway, but they were good friends, uh-huh, and I remember going to him and I says you know, I don't know why my blood pressure's, and he says you're all right. And he says, hey, do you want to get out of the service? I says no. I says you know, I ain't called, I'm going to do my duty. So he says okay, so I went back and they never did get me a good. You know, I went back again and I, you know just part of the excitement or something like that. So, anyways, we got on the train and went to Fort Knox and I had my basic training there and the MOS you know what that is, that I don't MOS.
Speaker 1:Oh, your military occupation, yeah yeah, yeah, your MOS.
Speaker 2:You know what that is, that I don't MOS.
Speaker 1:Oh, your military accommodation, yeah, yeah, yeah, your MOS, yes, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was printing. And so you know, instead of and that was the time when Cuba was the Cuba crisis was happening. Right, yeah, when Cuba was the Cuba crisis was happening, Right, yeah, so you know. The sergeant says well, all you guys are going to go to Cuba, and oh shit, Anyways.
Speaker 1:They like to tell you that stuff when you're in boot camp, don't they?
Speaker 2:So, anyways, but you know, they sent me to Fort Ben Harrison, indiana, uh-huh, and so I was there for about nine months and during that time I met Loretta. And, matter of fact, I think I went to a wedding reception with my sister and Loretta was in the thing, and so she told my sister I don't know how he got Well, when he came with his sister, I thought it was his date. Okay, okay, so it was your sister, not your date. No, well, it was that date.
Speaker 1:Right, right, it was his date. Oh, okay, okay, so it was your sister, not your date.
Speaker 2:No, well, it was that date.
Speaker 1:Right right, it was somebody else, but it was my sister, anyway.
Speaker 2:So we finally made connections and after the reception everybody went to the local bar, I think it was, and so we were there and she's driving her car and I was driving my car. So anyways, we met and I said, you know, we're getting pretty close here. That's kind of neat, yeah. So anyways, I said, well, you're going home? She says yeah. I says, well, I'm going to follow you home because I want to make sure you get there so anyway, the oldest trick in the book and she swallowed it you know, anyways.
Speaker 2:so we got there and I think I had our first kiss there and that was kind of neat. So, anyways, then we decided, well, we're going to start dating, and of course I was in the service at the time.
Speaker 1:Great. Now how far was Fort Benjamin Harris from where?
Speaker 2:It's about four hours. Yeah, a four-hour drive. Yeah, okay, a little over 200 miles. Fort Benjamin Harris, from where it's about four hours. Yeah, four hour drive. Yeah, okay, a little over 200 miles, something like that, because he came home every weekend Every weekend, Of course.
Speaker 1:Of course. You came home every weekend.
Speaker 2:I came home, my love of life was there, you know, right, right. So anyways, that was that was kind of neat, and and so anyways, that was kind of neat and I remember I think it was over a holiday or something like that that I introduced her to Rondo Park, so we were there, and so that was kind of neat.
Speaker 1:Now. So what were you doing? So your MOS was printing, yeah. So what were you doing in Indiana? What kind of work were you doing there? That's interesting, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I didn't know how to you know the big printing machines. I never used them, right. So they said well, you can work with this woman that runs the printing and she made me. When the print was all done, you had to wrap them up and and send them. Well, I was the guy that wrapped them up so that was your job so I was wrapping up stuff and and sending you know, sending out to the, the rest of the plant, I guess I don't know where they're going.
Speaker 1:Well, and how long were you in the Army then?
Speaker 2:Until I was there almost nine months when I got my orders to go to Fort Bragg and I remember one of the guys I think it was a sergeant or something out there and he says oh geez, you've got nine months, you're almost a short timer already, right, so he tried to keep me there but he couldn't. So, anyways, I had purchased a car that I had gotten the money from the car that was in the crash.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it was $800 or something and it was a Mercury stick shift which you know, I know how to drive but I never liked this. But anyways, I had that for I don't know several, a couple of years, I don't know. I took it to Fort Bragg, okay, so I was there at Fort Bragg.
Speaker 1:So did you do kind of the same thing at Fort Bragg then?
Speaker 2:No, I was put into psychological warfare. Oh okay, and psychological warfare again. I have no idea how to run a machine. Mm-hmm. But I had a little talent of making with wood or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, working with wood or something. Yeah, yeah, working with wood.
Speaker 2:And so I made a model of the printing plant and stuff like that. And I remember this boy I can't remember his name, but he became a good friend a black kid, and he was an artist. So whatever I did, he painted it.
Speaker 1:Oh, some guys made a good team.
Speaker 2:So we were a good team.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and and pretty much that was my job at, at and the, and I remember well that we had gone to other facilities, other Other bases, bases yeah. And I forget one was the Air Corps. Not the Air Corps, but I know they were famous for their paratroopers. Now, Bragg was the 82nd.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So this must have been 101st, or something.
Speaker 1:Down at Fort Benning. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But anyways, we were there. Mm-hmm but anyways, we were there and the local, the guys would put us up, yeah, but no, we went to a hotel. It was a hotel, okay, but the hotel wouldn't let this black kid in, so he, so they were able to. You know one of the army personnel, he would stay there, but of course in those days they were still segregated pretty good, yeah, that was kind of rough. Yeah, it was, so I remember that pretty much.
Speaker 1:So you did that for another what like nine months then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, until I got out, got out in 64. Yeah, I got out.
Speaker 1:Now? Were you still dating or had you gotten married by this time?
Speaker 2:No, yeah, we were still dating Okay. Were you still dating or had you gotten married by this time? No, yeah, we were still dating, okay, and so I would come home every so often a week Fly home. Huh, you used to fly. Well, we had to fly home, yeah. On standby. Fly flew into what's the Willow Run? Willow Run, oh yeah. Willow Run Airport, yeah, yeah we flew into Willow Run.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, willow Run Airport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we flew into Willow Run.
Speaker 1:Flying military standby right.
Speaker 2:Something like that. I can't remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's how they did it back then it was an interesting time. Oh yeah, so you got out in 1964, and then what did you do after that?
Speaker 2:I went back to Edison, Okay, and that's when I because I got out of the mapping and went over to the model shop and of course I just kind of loved that. But I wasn't trained, I mean, I didn't have a lot of the training. So I learned a lot of stuff when I was at the model shop and I met some good friends there and the model shop moved out to Livinori I don't know what they call it campus, but Livinori.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was. You know, they had the big shop and it was really kind of neat and that was one of the the um addison had. I forget who one of his vice president or somebody but he had an electric car that he had worked on and this electric car was at this area, yeah, and we used to go and look at it, and every once in a while he got to be an older man and he just took a lot of the advantages of going and puddling around with it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And it worked again, yeah, so it was kind of neat how long were you at Edison? I was there about 18 years. Okay, another side job there. They had a truck with what do you call the? Oh boy. The calliope.
Speaker 1:Like an organ calliope. Huh, a calliope.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, like an organ, calliope, yeah a calliope, and Edison would loan this calliope to parades and stuff like that. Well, I was part of that, you know, and I would take the calliope and they would send a guy that could play the thing with me and we'd go to the the parade.
Speaker 2:Matter of fact, one of the parades was uh at, uh, saint gerard's, where I was going to church at that time, and the church had a big celebration there, and so we took the calliope and the truck there and went up and down the side seats. Yeah, you forgot to tell them when we were married in 65, April. I was married in 65.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've been married 60 years now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, we bought a house and when we were officially married, we moved into the house. Yeah, we bought the house before we were married in Detroit. Her father wasn't terribly pleased with that because he didn't think Detroit was going to be a very good place to live.
Speaker 1:Right. So did you live in that house for the 18 years that you were at Edison then?
Speaker 2:18 years with Edison. Yeah, we lived pretty much in that house, all right, and did you have children there? We had. Yeah, I think all of them were born there, okay how many children do you have?
Speaker 1:I?
Speaker 2:had three, okay, four, four.
Speaker 1:Somebody's not going to be happy about that, right.
Speaker 2:Ann was just born, about two years before we lived and we built a dormer on the house to take care of the new, the kids. At the time, though, the neighborhood was changing. We had our first black neighbors moved right next door uh-huh and they were neat people and and I think they had a little little daughter or something and and laurie would take care of her. It was kind of neat.
Speaker 2:so and and our good friends, the sheriff ellies, were down the street and we used to go to their house and play pinochle, I think it was, and the guys would cheat like hell and they'd still lose.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's how it goes. That's how it goes.
Speaker 2:Anyway all of a sudden, oh, I got this full house, what the hell. Or I got double pinochle, anyway. So it was fun, it was a good time, and they remained friends for years.
Speaker 1:So how old were your kids then, when you moved?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Ann was two and Bridget was five. Uh-huh, Bridget was yeah, five RJ was six and Katie was seven.
Speaker 1:And where did you so? When you left that neighborhood, where did you go from there?
Speaker 2:We went to East Lansing, okay.
Speaker 1:And the reason we went. Yeah, so why did you leave DTE and how did you end up in East Lansing?
Speaker 2:Well, my brother Tom, had begun a new law school called Thomas Cooley Law School in Lansing.
Speaker 1:Oh, and he was the one he was the founder of that school Uh-huh called Thomas Cooley Law School in Lansing.
Speaker 2:Oh, and he was the one. He was the founder of that school, uh-huh, and he had. They had purchased a property, but in the first six months they outgrew the property, and that was on Grand Street, I think it was. Uh-huh. And so he purchased the Masonic Lodge. Masonic Lodge, an old building, and it was in terrible repair. Uh-huh, but it was big.
Speaker 1:That's what he did. It was big and it was a building.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was big and a building and he was just. You know we're getting all kinds of students and the neat part about Kulin Law School is that they had three terms or three classes and each class had its own. In other words, if you went to the morning, you graduated from morning, afternoon and then evening. Well then he started a weekend class and he got them all over the.
Speaker 1:United.
Speaker 2:States came in and, of course, cooley was tough. It wasn't a terribly tough school to get into, but it was tough to get out. Yeah, he hired a lot of good professors, mm-hmm. And so, you know, the school rocketed, you know, oh yeah, and we finally got a certification. And so we got the certification.
Speaker 1:Now, what were you doing at Cooley Law School then?
Speaker 2:Well, at the beginning I was the only one that took care of the property.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, so.
Speaker 2:I hired the janitorials and of course I hired the companies to do all the electricians and the plumbers.
Speaker 1:So you were the facility's supervisor manager. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And after a while I took over the purchasing department, uh-huh, so I was kind of doing everything for a while.
Speaker 1:Well, what was it like to watch that happen? Because Cooley's a big deal and so you got to see it from when it wasn't a big deal. Yeah, yeah, right. So what was that like for you to see that happen?
Speaker 2:Well, of course we grew. We bought the old JC Penney building. Yeah. And we made that our library. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And the building that we call the center building. Now, I don't forget what the name of it was, but it was my brother. It was a 14-story building and it was a cheap building. And my brother said, oh, I got it, I got it, that's location and everything Right. It was really nice and the building would go and you could get in the middle of one of the floors and jump up and down and you could feel it move. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was a cheap building, yeah, so anyways, and it was only eight-foot ceilings, mm-hmm and it was only eight-foot ceilings and very little room to put any kind of ventilation system in.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So you know, brother, and I sitting there thinking about it and I said, well, I says, you know, maybe if you remove the floor above and make that one floor, we could have enough room. And he started thinking about it. I said, well, why don't we do that for the whole building? I said, well, we could do that. Wow, so we made a 10-story building out of a 14-story building.
Speaker 1:You lost a few floors.
Speaker 2:Well, and of course, all steel work. Yeah, I mean, we completely gutted it.
Speaker 1:Took all the infrastructure and all that.
Speaker 2:We took everything it was pretty much a brand new building and our architect was an old friend from St Thomas and my brother was a good friend of him and matter of fact St Thomas. Okay, and my brother was a good friend of him and, matter of fact, he had that architect, had designed the St Thomas church. So he was, and so, anyways, we got together and and it became a real project. Yeah. So and his name was Bernie, bernie Mayotte that his son was just a newly a new architect.
Speaker 1:yeah, Newly minted architect.
Speaker 2:But he was quite talented. So, anyways, mike and myself would get together and we would make sure that this got together and made, and so he was quite a friend after a while, because we really had to get together and in those days we had a plumber team and we had electrical and we had the Hausman Construction Company, yeah, and so all these companies we had when we were in the new building there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the old building.
Speaker 2:In other words, we got friends with them at the Masonic Temple.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So we just carried all that stuff over.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure they were happy to have the business. Oh that's oh a houseman.
Speaker 2:Matter of fact, he was so he was so happy and we paid our bills every month Right, and in those days, you know they were lucky to get money in 90 days. Yeah, yeah, and so.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, he would give us a 10% discount. Every time we gave him a bill he'd give us 10% off, and it happened that the DARD people, the plumbers, would do the same and the electrician would do the same. So every bill we got and we paid them every month and they gave us a 10% discount. That's definitely worth it, so that worked pretty good for both, actually Right. Because they all got paid every month.
Speaker 1:Now, did you stay at Cooley right up until you retired then? Yes, Okay so you were there a longley, right up until you retired then, yes, okay, so you were there a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the day we opened that building was, or the year, I guess, the 2000. Uh-huh, we had a big celebration and it was a black tie. Oh yeah, it was really neat. Matter of fact, we got pictures of all our kids and their spouses and stuff, so it was really neat. Where did the name come from, thomas?
Speaker 1:Cooley was a Supreme Court Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court. We've been talking for a long time, ray, so Thomas Cooley Law School got its name from a Michigan Supreme Court justice then. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:As a matter of fact, he was connected to the federal government and his big thing was the railroad system. Okay, so he was part of that design and all for the federal railroads.
Speaker 1:So his family was happy to lend his name to the law school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because there were still some people left.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And the first party we had when the school was being new. We had Raymond Burr.
Speaker 1:Oh, raymond Burr, Raymond Burr, old Ironsides yeah he gave a speech at the initial.
Speaker 2:How cool is that. As a matter of fact Laurie and I were talking to Raymond is that Laurie and I were talking to Raymond and he says well, if you ever get into, get to Hollywood, huh, to Los Angeles. No no to the Brennan's. Brecht of St Brennan's, oh okay. And New Orleans to.
Speaker 1:Brennan's breakfast at.
Speaker 2:Brennan's oh okay, in Los Angeles. No, new Orleans, new Orleans uh, huh and we talked about. He says did you ever get that's the greatest place in the world? And he well, we never did.
Speaker 1:But it's never too late. Yeah, it's never too late, yeah but he highly recommended it uh huh so he was.
Speaker 2:He was a neat guy.
Speaker 1:So your family got to basically grow up in East Lansing then and did you stay pretty much in the same neighborhood the whole time.
Speaker 2:No, Our first house was oh yeah. Well, we to to our first house.
Speaker 1:This is our second, so and but you raised your family at the everybody was.
Speaker 2:We lived on 1551 Greenview. Yeah, harrison, yeah, okay, I think when we moved here, they were all in college or they were all gone. So we were pretty much….
Speaker 1:Kind of empty nesters when you moved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, empty nesters when we first got here. Okay, okay okay, that makes sense and in those days Walnut Hills had the had the women's tournament yeah, was it the Buick Open? Well, the Buick Open was in Grand Ledge, but I forget what. I think it was.
Speaker 1:I forget what it I think it was I forget what it was, but one of the One of those car companies, I think, sponsored it Oldsmobile, yeah, the Oldsmobile, oldsmobile Classic.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now is this where you met the Pop-Offs? Was it Walnut Hills?
Speaker 2:No, I can't, no, I can't. I think her dad was a member of the what's the club that all the boating club. No, well, the You're talking about your wife's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, dan.
Speaker 2:Her father was a member of the football thing. Oh, the football, the boosters yeah yeah, but you know they meet every during the season they meet every week, and her father, I think, was a high monkey in that.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's Papa. Yeah, yeah, because she remembers you guys from when she was a lot younger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, she does. So she was Well, she was good friends with Brian too, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, brian Birch, brian Birch. Yep, okay, so that's how she knows you.
Speaker 2:It could be, but I'm sure that her father was in that.
Speaker 1:Shoot. You'll think of it after we're done talking, I'm sure of it. So yeah, so you came here, you worked for. You basically helped build Cooley Law School, which is just amazing to me. I want to ask you another question, though, and I'm going to get this all wrong, because I saw this a while ago, but in your office there's a picture on the wall from I think it's a newspaper article about a watch or a ring or something that was your grandfather's watch. Yeah, your grandfather's watch. Oh, what's the story about that?
Speaker 2:Well as. I told you that both my grandparents were from Kingston Ontario. Yeah, and my grandmother was a Devlin Her father was the original fire chief in Kingston Ontario, and in those days he was. They call him a taxi driver.
Speaker 1:Well, a taxi was a horse and a drone buggy.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a little yellow car, yeah, and they. And because he knew the neighborhood, he knew the whole thing that he was a volunteer fireman and then pretty soon they made him the fire chief and in the later days they had a building that the fire chief was there and of course the bottom floor was where they keep the horses and stuff and the upper floor is where the people lived.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that building's still around and, matter of fact, when we went to visit Kingston, we took a tour through that building.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Tell them how the watch came about. Yeah, how did he lose his watch?
Speaker 2:Well, the citizenship gave him the watch.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:And he had the watch for a number of years, and when he died he gave it to my grandmother. My grandmother had the watch. Well, she didn't think she wanted the watch, you know. So she gave it back to the fire and they had a museum, I think, at that time, and so the watch was displayed in this museum. Well, they shut down the museum and the watch was part of the museum. Well, they shut down the museum.
Speaker 2:And the watch was part of the stuff and they put it in storage. So when RJ, my son, and I went to Kingston, we visited the fire department and we told them about the watch and stuff and we met the fire chief and, matter of fact, they gave us I think they gave RJ a shirt or gave me a shirt and gave him a jacket. With the you know.
Speaker 2:With the name of the fire department yeah the fire department on it, and so we went back to the hotel. We got a call about 10 o'clock at night. It says we found your watch. It says we'll be right over. Wow. And they brought and they called up the newspaper the local newspaper, and so when we got there they had the newspaper people there and they took our pictures and they got us their story. Matter of fact, I think the next day we had lunch with the lady that was writing the article and we told her all about what was going on.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a really cool story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the other connection we had with Kingston was that her uncle, one of his kids, lived there oh, lived there and so while we were there we talked to them and they invited us over for dinner. Well, it was like a Thanksgiving dinner and all the stuff was there and all their kids were there and we all felt like we were buttoned in. But no, they really treated us well.
Speaker 1:That's great. So the watch now is in that shadow box. Yeah, oh, so that's where you saw it. Yeah, that's where I saw it was in the office, in the shadow box he had an estimate on it and I think it was worth what?
Speaker 2:$800. But he wanted, of course he wants to keep it. We were going to try to get it to run again. And we probably could have, but we had to send it away. I says I'm not going to take that.
Speaker 1:That's a little risky, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not going to take that.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:RJ put his. He says when Dad goes, watch his mind.
Speaker 1:Well, he was there when it got recovered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so anyways, but that was another story about.
Speaker 1:Kingston, Ontario, Interesting. Well, you know, we've been talking for about an hour and a half and we've covered a lot of things, stuff I never would have known otherwise. So a couple of things before we kind of wrap up. Okay one is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to talk about? Is there anything that you wanted to cover that we didn't cover?
Speaker 2:what was the?
Speaker 2:I yeah no there's something, and it probably has nothing to do with me, okay, but Pope Leo had a did a commentary on Charlie Kirk. Uh-huh, it was just a beautiful, beautiful thing and it lasted maybe a half an hour anyways, or maybe better, but he did all the things about Charlie Kirk and he brought in the fact that people are not going to church anymore and he says you know, charlie is responsible to get people back to church. And that was a beautiful tribute and I'll never forget that. But anyways, that was.
Speaker 1:Well, this sort of leads me to my final question, really, and that is when people are watching this or listening to it, even years from now, what message would you like to leave them with?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm always a believer in heaven and you've got to save your soul to get into heaven, and I think that people are not doing enough to get there and I hope I am, but I don't know. So now we continue to go to church and do our daily prayers. As a matter of fact, I've got a St Anthony thing that I do daily prayers there.
Speaker 2:And so, anyways, I just hope and I'm concerned that somehow we're all going to get there, and so that's my promise and hope. So, anyways, if we and if everybody meets in heaven, that'll be wonderful.
Speaker 1:I agree. Yeah, I agree. Well, thanks for taking the afternoon and talking with me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Okay, I hope it was worth it.
Speaker 1:It definitely was Ray, it was Okay.
