What If Your Life Improves Only When You Decide It Must (Charles Thomas)

A lot of people say they “worked their way up.” Charles Thomas actually did it, step by step, when the alternatives were a factory line, a foundry floor, or getting drafted into the Vietnam War. We talk with Charles about growing up in Willow Run after moving from Detroit, finding his identity through sports, and grinding through two demanding jobs just to save enough money to start college. That determination takes him from junior college to a full basketball scholarship at Gonzaga University, where he trains for a career in clinical laboratory science and medical technology. 

From there, the story turns into a Vietnam-era military journey that rarely gets told from the medical side. Charles walks us through joining the United States Air Force, basic training at Lackland, advanced training at Wright-Patterson, and the reality of doing the same work you trained for but “the Air Force way.” At Fairchild Air Force Base, he supports military medicine and helps process blood drives shipping blood to Vietnam, a reminder that wartime care depends on labs, logistics, and quiet precision. We also get into leadership and career growth, including Officer Candidate School, running labs, and training new techs. 

After active duty, Charles pivots again, completing physician assistant training and building a long civilian career as a PA in surgery at Michigan State, including plastic and reconstructive trauma surgery and breast cancer reconstruction coordination. He also serves in the Michigan Army National Guard and reflects on family legacy, from a 58-year marriage to raising identical twin sons who reach the NBA and later become coaches. If you care about military service, healthcare careers, physician assistant life, or how to build a meaningful life across decades, you’ll take a lot from this conversation. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Today is Friday, April 17th, 2026. We're talking with Charles Thomas, who served in the United States Air Force and the Michigan Army National Guard. So good afternoon, Charles. Good afternoon to you. It's good to see you again. As always. Yeah, all right. So I'm gonna start out with the easy questions first. When and where were you born?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

I was born in Detroit, Michigan. Uh-huh.

unknown 0:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

But uh left there at age three years old and moved out to uh Willow Run, where they had a bunch of factories of people coming in working in the bomber plant there from the uh for the service, military service that time.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

What year were you born?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

1944.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

1944. Okay. Wow. And uh so you're um did you have brothers and sisters growing up?

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yes, I did. I had uh uh an older brother and an older sister and uh two younger brothers.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Okay, so you were like right in the middle there? Yeah, I was a middle child. Yeah? The forgotten one.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Well, I don't know about the one that had to do everything.

Childhood In Willow Run

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Exactly, exactly. So tell me a little about mom and dad. Um, how was your family?

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Well, I I actually was uh was the first of the uh four kids my mom had, and uh she had divorced my dad, I think, when I was like three years old. Okay. And uh so my mom remarried, and so I was actually raised by my stepfather in Willow Run. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

And now did he work at the factory?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

No, he uh worked at University of Michigan uh hospital uh in the lab. He was uh did a lot of lab work in the lab there. Okay. And then what about mom? She worked at the hospital University of Michigan hospital also, but she was in dietary.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Okay. Now is that how they met then?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

I'm not sure how they met. I never got that story. I I know he was in uh Eastern Michigan in school, um, wanted to be a uh uh pharmacist. But after he met my mom, he kind of turned that around and dropped out and started raising four kids that she had.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

That's that's quite uh quite an undertaking. Yes, it yes, it was. Yeah, I'll bet. I'll bet. And so what was it like growing up? What uh what kind of things did you do as a as a kid?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Well, as a kid, I I kind of like uh gravitated to a lot of the sports. And I played uh both uh basketball, baseball, and football. Um broke my knee playing football, so I I quit that at uh about eighth grade, and and I never went back to football after that. So I stayed with baseball and basketball.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Okay. All right, any favorite subjects in school?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

No, not really. I think I like Spanish a lot, but uh maybe because I got A's in Spanish, but um but mainly I just was in college prep when in school and because I I knew I wanted to go to college. Uh-huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

And so you uh you uh go through school. Now, did you go all the way through school at Willow Run?

Factory Work As Motivation

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yes, I did. I went all the way through the school at Willow Run in their public schools and uh graduated from Willow Run High. Uh I was um and then uh at that time I we uh didn't have the money to go to school after that. So I worked in the factories for the next year to make enough money to try to go to school. And what did you do with the factory? I worked at Ford uh Rossonville uh in their uh carburetor division, building carburetors uh for their cars. And I also worked at uh uh foundry in uh there's an iron founder there that uh poured a lot of uh parts for the wheels on the cars and also refrigerate refrigerator parts.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

And but I both worked at both of those at the same time. Wow. Yeah, I I I said, well, the only time I had off was on Saturday and Sunday, and then it was right back to the you know, both jobs during the week just to make money to to go to school.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah. Now was um was school something that was important to your family, or was it just something you knew you wanted to do?

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Well, it was something I I knew I wanted to do, especially after, you know, you work in that factory on that simile line and you realize that there's no way I can do this for the rest of my life. Yeah. And then you get in that iron foundry and it's hotter than heck in there, and you got soot in the air all the time, and you come out and you're dirty, you're nasty. And I'm like, it's gotta be a better life than this. I said, I just can't do these two jobs the rest of my life. And guys have been in there for all their lives. Right. But that was something I knew I didn't want to do. So after working in the factories and the foundries, you realize that you better get in school and get something, you know, better than this.

Junior College To Gonzaga Basketball

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah. So you uh you worked for that year. Did you end up going to school then?

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah, I uh after I um after that year I worked, I went to uh Jackson Community College in Jackson, and I went there for a year, uh, played basketball there and uh won a uh scholarship out of there, full scholarship to uh Gonzaga University.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Really?

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Wow. So you went to Gonzaga?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, I graduated from Gonzaga uh in the next three years, and I played basketball there for the three years I was there.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

So who do you cheer for during the NCAA tournament? Just curious.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Well, I always cheer for my my you know my alma mater, but you know, lately their the teams haven't been as good as some of the ones in the past, so I never have them going all the way to the finals in my pools.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Now, you do you remember that first year that they that they won? That was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, it was that was uh that really was.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah, I'd never heard of Gonzaga before.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

No, but they they put the team on the map, but I can say when I played there, we had the best record there for years until some of these new teams come up. Uh I mean, when I got there, they didn't even have a gym.

unknown 6:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

We practiced in an old dungeon. We played our games downtown at the uh Coliseum. Uh so we had 10 home games, all the rest of them were on the road. But my first year there we went 18 and 8. Second year there we went 19 and 6, and then my last year there we went 21 and 5.

unknown 7:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

We couldn't get in the tournament.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Wow, I mean that's a pretty good record for not being able to get in the tournament.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Right. Well, there was only 32 teams in the tournament at that time, not 64 like they are now.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Wow, that's just amazing. I I've never met anyone that went to Gonzaga, let alone played ball there. That's incredible. You kind of blazed the trail for these young guys coming in.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, that that you can say that, but yeah, they were a lot better than me coming in now.

Medical Technology And Lab Training

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Yeah, yeah. Probably make a little bit more money too, I would think. Yes, they do. Yeah. So what did you study in in school?

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Uh in Gonzaga, I studied uh uh medical technology. Uh-huh. Clinical lab uh specialist was what I was coming out of uh school at Gonzaga. Okay. I was a certified ASCPT tech.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Kind of following in your stepdad's footsteps a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, kind of like that. But he was, like I said, he worked in the um microbiology media and for uh culture media. My job is was running all the uh tests that the doctors ordered for different uh chemistries and hematology and learning how to do all that.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

That doesn't sound like an easy degree to get. Well that's a lot that sounds like a lot of work.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Well, it is, it's kind of and then you have a 12-month internship after you finish school, you have to you have to do an internship in the lab, and then you have to sit before a national board exam for that after you're done.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Now, where'd you do your internship at?

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Right there in in Spokane where Gonzaga is, uh at uh St. Mary's Hospital. Okay. I was there for 12 months before I uh left there and went to the service.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, so you graduated, you did you got your degree, did you you passed your state boards, I assume, or your national boards? National boards, right? Yeah, and then you decide, ah, I'm gonna go join the Air Force.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Well, not quite. This was the height of Vietnam. Right. And uh in 1968, I graduated in uh 68, and Uncle Sam sent me a letter saying uh uh come and take a physical. I went like, okay. As soon as I got my and at that time you had two S deferments. And uh once you graduated, you went to the top of the list. Yeah. And so I went uh my father-in-law, I was married at when I my last year of school.

Marriage And The Vietnam Draft

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Okay, so let's back up just a second. So you met your wife at school then?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Yes. Well, she was at uh Eastern Michigan University. Okay. I'm sorry, I correct Eastern Washington. Eastern Washington. I was gonna say hi. Yeah, Eastern Washington, okay, which is about 16 miles from Gonzaga.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, how'd you meet?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Uh I it's really funny. I saw her at the top of the bleachers, uh-huh, sitting in the stands at one of our games, and nobody and my roommate didn't know who she was, and I didn't know who she was. And I said, Well, maybe she's coming to the party after the game, and she did. Uh huh. And that's how we met at the party.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Wow. So that's all that's as close to love at first sight as you could get, I think.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Well, love from long distance because she was way at the top of the bleachers.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Right. You could have made a horrible mistake. She was so far away, right? Yeah. Well, that's great. So you just she was at the party and you just kind of hit it off?

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah. And I asked her for a date and uh uh had to go on a road for the next two weeks, so I didn't see her.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

So she thought I'd forgotten about her, but I I didn't. And we got together and uh so she started coming to my games regularly. And little did I realize that uh her dad was in the Air Force. Oh. And she and so she was an Air Force brat. And she'd been in there, and so I kind of like, you know, talking to them and were like, you know, I thought, well, if I'm gonna go to service, you know, I'd probably like to go to the Air Force, you know. Right. And so I went down and uh after uh graduation and enlisted in the Air Force. Um the um degree I had was a direct commission degree, but I knew I was gonna be getting close to the draft, so I couldn't wait around and apply for a direct commission, so I just went enlisted uh to start off with right away.

Basic Training And Wright-Patt

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah. So what was your what was your uh job in the Air Force?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Well, when I got in the Air Force, uh I asked them, I you have to take all these different tests in the Air Force to qualify you for the different jobs, and I scored high enough in all of them that I could have picked whichever one I wanted. And I said, Well, I want the one I studied in, it was clinical lab. And so they said, Well, that's a long program. We have two phases. And uh we have a test that you can take for the first phase. If you pass that test, you bypass that phase, which is a three-month phase, and then the next one is a nine-month phase, which is clinical on-the-job training. And I went like, I just did 12 months of that.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Well, you gotta learn how to do it the Air Force way. So I took a test, bypassed the first phase, and I said, Well, give me a test for the second phase. We don't have a test.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

You gotta do it.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

So I was um stuck on going to phase two training at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in uh 1969 for my second phase of training. Now, where did you go for basic training? Basic training, I went to Lackland Air Force Base, where all the Air Force uh people go for basic training.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah, that's like the only place they've ever had it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yep, that's the only place they got it.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Every Air Force precisely, yeah. Okay, because the Army, I mean, there's a there was a hundred places you could go to basic. Yeah, but the Air Force was not. What was what was basic training like for you? Because you're a little bit older, right, than than a lot of the guys that went, or is it because of the draft or a lot a lot of people your age?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Well, I was uh I think I was like uh 20, 22, 23 when I went to basic training. But to me, basic training wasn't hard as it was getting in shape for basketball. I mean, when we played basketball at Gonzaga, I thought the coach was crazy. I mean, we did four miles a day, eight miles on Wednesday, and then we did sprints, and then we'd hit the weight room. I I went from uh 215 pounds down to 199 pounds in two weeks. Whew. Yeah, it was tough. So when I got the basic training, I won't like the calisthenics and they were doing, that was a piece of cake.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

You didn't tell anybody that, did you?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

No, I didn't. I just kept my mouth shut and said, hey, it's a good way to give keep shaking. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, so basic training, not a problem then at all.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

And then you so you went, did you go right from there to Wright Pat then for your after uh uh after basic training, uh you have to sit into what they call a path status, which is a a hold status for about uh two or three weeks before you go to your um your school that you're gonna be training for. Uh-huh. And so I I was at uh Sharp Read Air Force Base there for two weeks before I went to Wright-Pattison.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Okay. And this whole time your wife is back home in Washington then?

SPEAKER_01 14:22

No, she's she yeah, she was in uh Washington because her parents lived there. Right. So she was there with them while I was in basic and uh while I was in uh PAT status. And I didn't see her until I was getting my assignment at Wright Patterson for uh my nine-month training. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

And could she could she accompany you then for your for that training?

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah, for the nine months?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yes, she uh came with me when we went to Wright Patterson. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Well, and she's an Air Force brat, so she's probably pretty used to that whole thing, right? Right. She used to be.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

She probably teach you a few things. Well, she was used to moving around, so it was it was pretty easy for her. And plus uh she had a job with the uh at that time it was the Bell telephone system, and it was only one system in the country. Right. And so she could transfer her job to wherever we were. That's perfect. So she did. She transferred uh down to well, once we got to uh after we left to Wright Patterson, she transferred there, and then we transferred back to my next station.

Fairchild Lab Work And Vietnam Blood Drives

SPEAKER_00 15:27

So where did you go after Wright Patterson?

SPEAKER_01 15:29

After Wright Patterson, I had an assignment uh to Minot, North Dakota. And I went, I you don't know where you're gonna go, and I went, well, I'll go anywhere except Mynot. I got the assignment of Minot, and I went like, oh, why not my not? That's what everybody said anyway.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Well they they it's like they know where you don't want to go. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

I think so. Yeah, but it was lucky for me, her dad was a high-ranking uh uh sergeant who knew the sergeant who did the airman assignments.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

And he said, Well, you want to come out here to Washington with me? I'm like, Yeah. And so he got my assignment changed and I went back to Washington right where I went to school at. Oh, that's great. So I went because Fairchild is right there in Spokane, Washington.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Uh-huh. And they have medical services there and on all the time.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah, they have a hospital there, and uh, and so that's where I was there for the next four years. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Now, did you did you do another enlistment or did you just get out after your four years?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Well, no, after four years, I was uh planning on getting out and going back to school, working on a master's, and then I they I saw this program on the board of physician assistants. And I went like and I looked at the qualifications, and I went like, I got all these qualifications, and it was a brand new thing, but I'd never seen a physician assistant. And so um I applied for it and I got it for their school. And I think um I've been one of the first ones in their school, and or second ones, because they had already started one class graduating. Um but then they had another program came up on the board for if you have your degree already, you can apply to go to OCS. And I'm like, I'll apply for that too. Applied for it, and I got it. But then they said, you can't have them both because one is officers and one is is still enlisted. Uh-huh. At that time the PAs were still enlisted. And so um, so this is in 1973. Uh so I said, Well, if I'm gonna stay in, I'll go as an officer. So I went to O I said, well, you can have your PA slot back. I'm gonna go to the officer school. So I went to OSCS. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

And uh how was that for you?

OCS And Fast Promotions

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Oh CS, okay. It was like I said, you do a bunch of extra calisthenics and all that stuff, which that didn't bother me anyway, because I've used to doing all that stuff and running and whatnot, but you have a lot of classes and uh teaching you how to be uh a leader. Yeah. Um so that wasn't too bad. And you and you each of the squadrons have a uh sports team that plays uh different sports there and they compete against the other ones. So the uh sergeant I I mean the uh officer that was in charge of us, he knew that I was played basketball, so he put me on his team in there and says, You run this team? Of course, of course he did. So we won that, we won that uh division.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Uh-huh. And then how so how long was uh Officer Candidate School, you recall?

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Officer candidate school was was it was three months. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

And then you graduated, now you're uh second lieutenant? Is that how they do it?

SPEAKER_01 19:01

You come out as a second lieutenant. Yeah, when you graduate out of that school. Uh the only thing was mine was a little different because they assigned me right in the field where I was trained at, and I'm a lab officer. And so I was gonna be running the lab. And I met the first sergeant there at the hospital, and he says, Did you come in as a direct commission? I'm like, No, I came out of OCS. He said, Well, this is a direct commission spot. And I'm he says, You need to call records and say that you already had this degree and uh you shouldn't be a second lieutenant. So I applied, I sent him off to correction of records, and they says, You're right, you shouldn't be a second lieutenant. You're here by promoted to a first lieutenant, with and we backdate your rank all the way back to when you graduate out of college. Wow. And in one month, you'll be a captain. Oh wow. That first sergeant took care of you.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Yes, he did. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

So I went uh from second lieutenant to first lieutenant to a captain in like less than nine months. Your father-in-law must have been pretty impressed. Well, he was always all made. He was kind of he was kind of hard. I mean, he was, yeah, you gotta do this right and you gotta do that, and you gotta, you know, so uh I couldn't make many mistakes with him. Yeah. But the the fact that he he wanted me to come out there was mainly twofold. One, he gets to see his daughter again. Two, we had two kids at that time, too, which were born at Wright Patterson. And so he gets to see his grandsons.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Uh-huh. So you have you have two sons then? Yeah, identical twins. Oh my gosh. That's busy.

unknown 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Two boys is busy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, it kept me going.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah. Probably a good thing you were out in Washington then.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, yeah, because he had his they had the grandparents there with them and uh they uh they enjoyed it. They used to ride in the base with me every day. I'd drop him off at the base nursery and um go over and uh work and then pick them up after work, but then I had to go over to the uh the gym because I was also coaching the uh base basketball team.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

And so I'd sit them up in the gym. They were still in bassinets, practice with the base team and then carry them home. They basically grew up in the gym.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah. Did the team like really uh kind of adopt them as part of the team?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Well, they they they one of the teams had a uh one of the players had a daughter and she used an older daughter, and she used to watch them while we were out practicing. Oh and then they started they started walking and growing and climbing the bleachers and and they got out of the bass nets.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So you kind of got to watch that all happen, even though you were still kind of working. Yeah. Right. Well, that's really cool. Yeah. Um, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah, but uh, like I said, the the only the long days we had was uh doing NAM. We we did a lot of uh sending a lot of blood over there to Vietnam. Yeah we drew a lot of did a lot uh I think it seemed like every other month we had a blood drive to send blood over to Vietnam and uh and being in the lab, I had to process most of that and draw a lot of those units that we spent over to them.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

And they had all had to be tested, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah, we had to test them all and uh label them and everything and back them up and ship them over.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

So that job made a difference to those guys in Vietnam for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Yeah, yes, it did.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Yeah. You can see kind of the direction. result.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

How long were you uh were you there though?

Leaving Active Duty And PA School

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Uh I was at um fair trial for four year uh four years and uh oh man uh I'm sorry yeah fair trial four years and then when I got my assignment out of OCS I was at Barksdale Air Force Base uh for four years okay and uh I uh was the OIC at the lab there and then they came down and said well your your hospital is big enough we want to set up a um phase two lab training for new techs coming in and you're gonna be the lead instructor what a deal like okay I've never had the instructors well we're gonna send you to school to teach you how to instruct the Air Force way right and so I had to go to a school teach how to instruct the Air Force how they instructed uh huh students and so I was the OIC of phase two clinical laboratories well and you and you you had to do basically two internships so you kind of knew what was going on right yeah but teaching was a little different thing especially what they always tell you you put on the board you um tell them what you're gonna tell them teach them what you told them and then tell them what you told them again right that was their way yeah it was successful too because you know we had we graduated kids out students out of there yeah so you enjoyed that assignment yes I did I did and uh then I uh non-ended and they said um well we got too many officers some of you guys have to leave so my class had to after their four years of commission service had to had to get out so they would have room for other people coming up and it wasn't your choice that well I want to stay no we're done you're done you have how many years by now eight okay yeah eight and a half yeah that's a long time all right so eight I eight and a half years and I was like okay I'll go back into your PA program. Well you can't do that unless you resign your commission and go back to your enlisted grade I'm like you're kidding no that's the only way you can apply and I'm like I'm not gonna do that so I started applying for civilian schools when I knew I was getting out okay and I got it uh accepted at uh Mercy College of Detroit uh for their PA program but I had to wait a year because I just missed their cutoff date to get into the next class. So what'd you do for that year in between I worked at uh Sparrow Hospital here in Lansing uh in the lab.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Now did you come back to Michigan because your family was here?

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Well I came back to Michigan because being from Michigan it was easier to they only had two PA programs one at Mercy in Detroit and one at Western Michigan. Okay. I applied for both of them and I moved to Lansing because it was kind of like in the middle I didn't know anyone in Lansing was the one guy I I went to high school with and we grew up together. Uh-huh and he went to Western he graduated from Western and was teaching here so uh it's kind of in the middle and and I got accepted in Mercy went to Mercy but I had relatives down there and I had relatives in Ann Arbor and Flint so you had to move around to to do your training.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Now did your wife come with you to Michigan?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Yeah yeah she uh she uh she was there with me at Barksdale and then she came back up here and moved her job from Michigan Bell up to here up to Michigan Bell here. Yeah and then everything split all the phone companies started coming up and popping up and said Bell is a monopoly you cannot have a monopoly and so they broke up all the phone companies. Right so but she still worked here one here.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Okay and then so talk to me a little about about PA school and and so how old are the how old are your your your boys now? Uh they're 56.

Raising Twins Who Reach The NBA

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Okay well so how old were they when you were going to PA school they were let's see they were like uh fourth graders so they were still yeah they were little yeah they were fourth graders they go to school in Lansing yes they went to uh one of the elementary schools uh think of the elementary school now but then they ended up going to high school at Everett High School uh and then they were basketball players as a matter of fact they were better basketball players than me they end up to being professional basketball players really one played with the uh Detroit Pistons and uh one with the Cleveland Cavaliers both of them made the uh the NBA the uh third set of twins ever in the NBA uh huh so what are their names Charles and Carl okay Thomas they were known as the Thomas twins and if you go around Lansing there's very few people doing that you know don't remember them because they were they were shots in in in um basketball during that time yeah they graduated in 87 so anybody around that time would know them and then they went on to uh eastern Michigan University got scholarships there to play the eastern Michigan and then eastern they went to NCAA in their freshman year and then they went to NCAA tournament in their senior year and they were the only Michigan team in the Sweet 16 at that time. That's exciting really is I went to every game I needed time off to go to their games followed them all over.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah.

National Guard Career And Med Command

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Well Everett's a good basketball school I mean it it urban john came from from Everett and uh yeah right yeah I graduated in 83 so uh they were a little bit after me right but uh yeah so you so so you've got uh two young boys you're going to PA school um it seems like you're pretty busy then yeah I was uh but uh after spending nine almost nine years in active duty I didn't want to let nine years ago with nothing yeah and so I applied to to join the Army National Guard and uh it was four years now since I've been out of the service but um even though you're out of the service if you have a uh a president's commission that commission still goes on uh you just go into what they call the uh reserve but you're you don't you never lose that commission right unless you resign it well when you join the National Guard PAs in the National Guard weren't officers they were they were uh warrant officers and so I had to resign my commission as a captain to take the warrant officer appointment because it's an appointment yeah so I um took the appointment and I stayed and they appointed me as a uh CW2 and I promoted to a CW3 and just before I was getting promoted to a C4 they came down and says we're gonna commission all the warrant officers so they they uh this was like uh what 90 uh 79 uh and so they commissioned all the war officers now and I said well maybe I'll get my captain back and and I should be able to make a major since I've been in well no we're gonna get your captain back and then so I got commissioned as a captain again and I made major and uh but I was in the uh the 119th field artillery here in Lansing for 13 years and our training during the summer was up at Greyland um but through the years there was a nights in Greyland got cold and I it was just eating me up being out in that field for in that cold weather and I wasn't like okay I gotta find another unit that's not out here in the field like this. Some places back in the office. Right yeah so I switched in uh in uh oh I think it was like 79 99 I went to uh forward support battalion in uh Detroit well did I know the forward forward support battalion still went out in the field the wrong unit so after a year I changed over to uh what they call the uh state med command and the state med command which did all the uh physicals and for people getting shipped out to going overseas and getting activated and then we gave them physicals when they came back and so we basically did that for the state and that's what I did uh when I went over to state med command in uh in in uh 97 and 97 I um went for major and then I got promoted in old in in 01 to lieutenant colonel and um I was like the first PA in Michigan to become a lieutenant colonel but now I'm getting old I was approaching my mandatory retirement date yeah age 60 yeah and so at age 60 I retired.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Now did you work full time for the guard then?

Michigan State Surgery And Reconstruction Work

SPEAKER_01 32:47

No just the just the uh the weekend yeah we call them weekend warriors yeah so I was a weekend warrior and then we do your two week uh summer camp uh up in Grayland mm-hmm and so what so you were a PA on the civilian side though I was PA on the civilian side and I was a PA in the uh Army National Guard.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

So you had like dual careers all the way up through there.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

But I as a PA in the civilian side I worked for uh Michigan State uh surgery department uh and I did that for 32 years in Michigan Tate and I worked in general surgery orthopedic surgery and then another 29 years in plastic and reconstructive trauma surgery that's quite a uh quite a legacy no but I uh in the in the guard uh the um biggest thing you did was you know you take care of the truth but then uh I had uh at that time he was major bad nays he's now General Bad Nays I know General Badnays well his son he had his son up at camp one time and his son got sick he brought him over to see me says what do you think is going on and I checked him out I says get him back home so we had to get him out of there and because he was up in Greyland with us at that time. Oh yeah came back and got operation yeah probably saved his life yeah so but um uh that nays was yeah he was very good yeah he's uh he was the one that uh recommended me uh be promoted to lieutenant colonel when I was yeah he got I got his recommendation wow that's that's incredible so quite a career quite a successful um family I mean your your sons uh so what do your sons do now they're both coaching um basketball uh one's uh head coach at uh clear university in Howe yeah so they they had no program at Howe basketball and the A D there called him and said um would you start a program for me now she was the A D when he was at Jackson College coaching there and he was there for four years uh at the same time he was working at a high school as a counselor and uh she he's he um said well and he was left Jackson went to uh Duquesne University with his brother who was at Duquesne University assistant coaching there and then he left Duquesne and came back to Michigan to start the clearing program and the one was at Duquesne ended up going to St. Louis University and then to Little Rock University uh Little Rock uh Arkansas to coach there and so both of them are coaching right now there and now the one in Little Rock is getting ready probably he's trying to go up to Utah now to to try to coach there still looking for that head coach position but I'm like oh yeah you're getting kind of old guy man they're not they're not getting guys you're age to head coach spots it's funny that 56 is old yeah it is but I guess in sports that's how it works.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Right right yeah absolutely and then are you so are you still married?

Family Traditions And Cookie Bank

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yeah yeah I've been married 58 years congratulations 58 years wow and I just got a bunch of grandsons yeah my son's had sons and I suppose maybe we don't have girls in our family. Wow so how many grandsons do you have then one's got two uh and the other one's got five six eight grandsons altogether then yeah oh my I bet the holidays are a lot of fun yeah yeah but they're like I said they're all older now I think the youngest one is uh 13. Uh-huh all of them are older and they come over and I think the biggest day I started a um cookie bank because I used to make them Christmas cookies every year and then we're like dude I'm getting old I need somebody to take over this job. It's time to pass the torch. And so they said well we'll all come over and help you. They all showed up and we had a blast making cookies. I said we're gonna do this again next year, Papa I'm like okay yeah I made them all um one of my hobbies is sewing and so I made them all uh aprons so they could uh you know wouldn't get cookies up all over them and every apron was a theme uh had a different theme on it uh you know what they're what they do like one grandson is he doesn't want to get up he's slow you know his apron had a bunch of snails all on it this is this is something they'll probably never forget though you know yeah right and then the next year they they came over this last year and I made them all chef hats. Oh really?

The Message For The Future

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah were those themed as well no the chef hats were then but they all had uh assistant chef on there oh okay mine said chief chef because you're you're still in charge right mine said the chief or master chef yeah yeah so they said I we gotta do this again but you guys are getting you got girlfriends now you're thinking about getting married you know if your wife lets you come over next year when you may if you're married you can come nice nice well that I mean that so that's incredible like what a what a legacy is you you have a uh an incredible family you have done all sorts of things and I'm sure in your field of work you have helped countless people probably people you didn't even know that you helped but is there any part of that career that like really stands out that you're really um proud of I don't like to use that word but is there a part of that that like really sticks in your memory well the the the biggest thing is my civilian job that sticks more than than my military job because it was it wasn't really exciting but the biggest thing military was the blood drives we did for the Vietnam event yeah people but civilian job it was I I did a lot of breast cancer restructur reconstruction so uh and I was in charge of measuring and following these women and with the uh reconstructive uh job and a surgeon did the reconstruction but then I was the one who did all the ordering the implants and ordering the expanders and whatnot to get them and then so a lot of them were really uh appreciative of having someone that was the same person there all the time doing their reconstruction. Well that's life changing too for them yes it is yeah so we've talked about a lot of things um uh you know before before we wrap up though is there anything that we haven't talked about that you did want to talk about because sometimes I don't ask the right questions so I just wanted to make sure that we captured everything well I think we we have like I said the biggest you know part of it is is the success that my sons went through and um in my high school uh I was put on uh uh hall of fame wall they had a hall of fame there uh in college I mean my cotta my junior college put me on uh hall of fame there well my sons had to outdo me there they were put in the Lancing Sports Hall of Fame uh they were just put in their high school hall of fame they put in they were named in but they at their college they call the Ring of Honor their names are in their in their in the stadium around the ring oh but the stadium uh ring of honor yeah so they they were we surpassed you I wanna yeah yeah you were supposed to right that's how that's supposed to work that's how it's supposed to work yeah so that was that was really proud moment there yeah I can I can only imagine and then of course their sons will have to outdo them so well I don't know if their sons will because they they are not as energetic and enthusiastic as my boys were because they wanted to play everything and I'm like you can't play everything.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah and but they gravitated to basketball and I don't know I'm not sure why they did but probably because their mother's dad was a professional basketball player. He was a Harlem Grove trucker. Oh yeah player and coach of the Harlem Grove truckers from Indiana Fort Wayne Indiana. Yeah that's where she's from but uh wow that I mean yeah how how could your boys not be successful right and one of them was a tremendous shooter that and he took after his grandfather said you got that from your grandfather because I was a banger uh since he was the shooter since he didn't get that from me wow incredible well there's just one other question I have to ask them before we go and that is if someone is listening to this a hundred years from now what message would you like to leave for people oh you know about how you lived your life and um and where you're at today well I was just saying is that if you want something that you have to go after you have to be in charge of your life and to you to challenge yourself to to do it because it's it won't come to you just sitting there.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Alright well thanks for sharing that thanks for taking time out of your day to talk with me. This has just been incredible thank you for having me. Absolutely